MikeForsythe

***Thanks Paul and John that explains a lot. There are now reports that another flight saw a large flash and then a vertical drop in the area of the flight. What would be the likelihood of a cloud to cloud lightning strike through the cockpit or the ebay right under them? That could explain everything that we know to date. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Paul, I can see where the pitot tubes could freeze up but don't they also use GPS? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

It is very uncommon. You might want to read the report. There was only like 15 sec from loss of the vertical stabilizer to impact and only 10.2 sec from stall warning. And I did not say it never happened and even cited an example when it did. I challenge you to find a similar accident where they had that kind of altitude and time and made no communication attempt. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

I guess you did not read my previous posts. I specifically stated commercial aviation and not general where a lack of communication is common. Thanks for proving my point. Again, you need to read my previous posts as I never said to stop flying the plane to attempt communicaion. Also, you try and make it like only one pilot was flying, do you have anything to support that since there were three pilots? Yes, it is theory based on fact. There was no telemetry to indicate any com failures. I guess if you had read the paragraph in whole and in context you would have realized that I was discussing voice communication only and the reason that I listed it last is because of the uplink time. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

So, what is your point? What does it matter who is reporting it if it is accurate? Yes they are assisting and not in charge, does that make them less competent? I don't think so. Nope, already gave you the reference to the news article with the quote. If you want to take it past that have at it. If you are still in denial that it is being looked into by various agencies and countries then I can't help you. Again, to not consider it and rule it out given that they don't know what happened would be negligence. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Want to try again Paul? Maybe you should read CNN if you don't like Fox News. From the NTSB "Foul play has not been ruled out." It would be negligent for any responsible investigation not to consider terrorism and not rule it out. Now, want to guess how many alphabet agencies are or have looked at this? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Who said anything about trying to gain access while the door is closed? That would be the last thing I would try. The good news is, clearly you are not a terrorist. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Bomb would be low on my list. I just brought it up as reported by the various news groups. IF and that would be a big IF it were terrorist related I was looking more at maybe someone entering the cockpit and taking the crew out. My whole point of the terrorist theory was just to bring it up to rule it out since it had not been discussed at that point. As for any communication attempts I would not have tried HF first. I would have gone for VHF 121.5 since it was already up and there were other flight in the area that were monitoring it, or try a sat contact but that takes longer. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

No, lack of communication is uncommon. Like I said, flight 800 was an exception. I am talking about commercial flights only and not general aviation where it is common. Do you know what facts are? The following are known FACTS: 10:33 Last radio contact 10:48 Last radar contact 11:00 Plane enters storm zone 11:10 -11:14 ACARS messages sent indicating when the autopilot was disengaged, FBW system switch to alternate law, ADIRU fault, ISIS fault, PRIM 1 fault, SEC 1 fault, cabin vertical speed limit exceeded and GPS location altitude and speed during transmission. Other flights flew through same area 10min before and after without incident Plane debris found number of passengers and crew are known Planes age, flight and maintenance history, etc. I could go on but do you not consider the above facts? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

That clearly shows a lack of openness to consider all options. You don't think that finding that out that the investigators arn't going to go and check out everyone on the manifest, history of any other threats to both the airlines and people on board? No, that threat was against the same airline for the same flight a few days earlier. Again, you don't think that it warrants going back and taking another look at it? I agree and we may never know given that the black boxes are sitting in 23,000' of water. No, it doesn't have to be a bomb but you can't rule it out either at this point. It should be noted though that the only modern day air disaster where there was no crew communication was flight 800 that exploded mid-air. Now that type of catastrophe would explain a lack of communication. Good TV? Are you saying that the reported bomb threat did not happen? The bottom line is all hypotheses must be studied. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

That the lack of any attempt to communicate by the crew is unheard of. Other than flight 800 that exploded midair there has always been some type of communication from these types of catastrophic events. Don't think so. There are thermal sensors that would have picked up and reported an alarm and sent it on the telemetry stream. Also, the crew would have had to ignore any smoke prior and both sides (pilot and co-pilot) would have had to simultaneously been taken out. Fact and speculation (theory) are not worthless. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

You might want to read THIS. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

JAL 123 had voice communications, flight 447 did not. Possible but unlikely given that the plane was only four years old where JAL 123 was almost 12. Again unlikely given no telemetry to indicate that and also Swissair 111 like the other references you have made had voice communication. Given the location of the ebay, com racks and functioning telemetry there is no reason for me to believe that all voice communications were out. I still don't by the fly before you talk scenario as in every case that you stated the pilots did both even with deadly catastrophic failures. My focus still remains on the lack of communication. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

But this was not like TWA 800 that lost everything instantly. Here the systems degrade over a 3+ min duration according to telemetry. And the ability is what I am focused on. We know the plane was intact enough to send data for over three minutes. That is why I am saying that you have to consider options other than storm and reliability. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

I heard a rumor that she won't answer her phone Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

You are talking apples and oranges. The data that was being sent tells me that the sensors, transmitters, wiring/fiber, controller, radio, antenna and power were intact or they could not have received what they did. An ELT is a totally self-contained autonomous unit. True and usually even with such events communications are maintained. Case in point.....THIS. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Yes they could have as they have several systems available to them including HF, VHF (emergency channel monitored by about everyone) and SATCOM. Clearly they were within communications range as their FANS and ACARS were being received. As for being a priority, I don't buy it. They are quite capable of flying and talking at the same time. Look at the flight that went into the Hudson, the captain was in command and made several communications all within the 30 seconds or so that he had and that was only from 4,000'. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

True, but the simple fact the plane was sending data streams tells me it was not to that point yet. You have a plane that is experiencing electrical system failures and loosing cabin pressure and you are over the middle of the Atlantic and you don't declare an emergency or ident? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

But this is not unusual. Sometimes it is several days before a group claims responsibility. While I don't think it is a high possibility, it is on my list until proven other wise. The other reason that I bring it up in this conversation is becasue no one else has. I don't think "normal" applies here. You have a new aircraft (four years) with no apparent maintenance/safety issues. You have what looks like a catastrophic failure of such magnitude that you have zero communication from the crew, no voice, no squawk.......nothing. From FL35 even with a catastrophic failure the crew would have had at least two and a half minutes before impact. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

I believe it is possible. Why do you think that it is not? To not consider it an option would be negligent. The manifest covered 32 countries. If you wanted to make a global statement, that would be significant. It would also answer a lot of questions. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Me, I am looking at the passenger list and the countries that they are from. Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Yeah, then why did I look like this when I left that last time? Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Maybe you should take up ham radio since installing fence gates didn't work out so well Remind me to NEVER fall asleep at your house Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

OMG, poor dog Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

Because she tells on me! Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!