377

Actually, I have never made a real wilderness jump so I'd be the wrong person to ask. My last "wilderness jump" (defined as way off DZ) was at the World Free Fall Convention about 15 years ago. A DC 3 pilot who didn't know how to use his new GPS put us out miles away from the DZ over a thick haze layer. I ended up landing in a K Mart parking lot. A nice looking woman whose car I landed next to invited me over for dinner. I had to decline as my GF was waiting back at the DZ. The only useful advice I could give to a jet skyjacker is pull right away to avoid going into a tumbling spin. A military C 9 canopy will easily survive a 200 mph opening that could shred a sport canopy. An immediate opening would make the altimeter and goggles unnecessary. Boots? Good idea but you might get lucky and land OK in street shoes. Same thing with gloves and a helmet. I question the utility of a 1971 vintage incandescent flashlight to illuminate your landing area. Cooper's methods didn't rule out a skydiver. In fact, the FBI started looking for Peterson days after the skyjack likely but not certainly based on a tip from DZO Linn Emrick. Next the FBI went to the USPA HQ then in Monterey CA and asked to inspect membership records. Many skydivers I knew reported being contacted by the FBI. They may have just been boasting. I haven't seen any of them referred to in FBI 302s. Your statements make it obvious that you are a jumper 812. Tell us who you think Cooper was or if you have no opinion, then tell us what you think his experience was. Jumper? Aircrew? Military? Civilian? One thing few dispute, Cooper was an innovative thinker who had extraordinary courage. You'd have to pay me a whole lot more than $200,000 to attempt to do what he did, but I am a wimp. My friend Snowmman offered to do it for a few thousand as I recall. He never makes BS offers. If anyone had put up the bucks and the plane and gear, he'd have done it. 377

Sheridan Peterson, considered by some to be a viable DB Cooper candidate, also jumped with the SPC. His book, The Idiot's Frightful Laughter, is available on Amazon and is worth buying just for the SPC content alone. It's straight out of Apocalypse Now. Coppola should have included it in his movie. Even more bizarre than the war zone surfing he did include.

My Vietnamese barber jumped with this club. He was a paratrooper in the RVN Army (ARVN). Their training included freefall as well as S/L. He never made any combat zone jumps but says that there were a few ops where they parachuted into safe-ish LZs. All his SPC jumps were made from H 34 helos, no fixed wing jumps.

I've been jumping for just over half a century, still active. Have jumped from a jet, DC 9-21 in 2006. Also made a wildly unstable high speed test jump from a firewalled C 130. Only in hindsight would I have any good ideas on how to make a successful night wilderness jump carrying a payload from a 727 flying well above stall speed. Cooper was innovative and gutsy as hell. Balls of steel, truly. I wish 812 Shadow would post how he would have executed the skyjack jump. I assume from his comments that he too is a seasoned jumper. Peterson is superbly qualified to have successfully executed the skyjack: expert skydiver, USPA instructor, USFS smoke jumper, ex Boeing tech document editor, innovative jumper (early wing suiter with homemade gear), USMC WW2 veteran, etc. He has made night jumps, water jumps and wilderness jumps. Ability and guilt are not the same things however. In math terms they are nearly orthogonal. Ted Braden (deceased MAC SOG jumper) was also well-qualified, as were many others. There is no evidence that unequivocally puts Peterson on the skyjacked aircraft. ZERO. Sheridan Peterson is presumed innocent until proven otherwise. He has no obligation to respond to or refute anything. FBI SA (rtd) MJ Fryar who took Peterson's DNA sample and still considers him a viable DBC candidate, recently opined that absent a confession, the case will never be solved. I volunteered to represent Sheridan Peterson pro bono in federal court if he is ever charged with the crime. I am very confident that given the current state of evidence, no conviction would result. 377

Good find on that WW2 24 ft B8 rig. Bet it was twill, not ripstop. 377

"2. MAKE: Pioneer TYPE: 24 ft white ripstop conical, SERIAL NO: 60-9707, DATE OF MFR: 7/60 (1960) --- packed by Cossey 5/21/71 (This back chute was left on the plane, ID'd by National Guard in Reno)" I've never seen a 24 ft white ripstop conical. Dudeman? All the white ripstop conicals I saw pre 1971 were Navy 26 ft ones. 377

I am 69 years old and in my 51st year of skydiving. I had two cutaways, one over Pope Valley CA in 1972 using military surplus gear and one over Rantoul Illinois using modern gear in 2005. I see skydiving as a very risky sport and see myself as a lucky cautious participant. Perry Stevens D-51 taught me how to jump in 1968. One bit of advice he gave me was: "when something looks marginal to you, take a pass on it, ALWAYS." Marginal planes, marginal gear, marginal jump plans, marginal weather etc. I've done nearly everything I can to mitigate risk. I jump with an RSL and a Cypres AAD. I don't swoop, wingsuit or BASE jump. I practice emergency procedures. I get gear checks before I board. I was a very early AAD user, buying an SSE Sentinal 2000 as soon as they hit the market. Back then experienced jumpers who wore AADs were ridiculed, but I didn't care. When I could finally afford a square canopy, I bought a conservative one (Triathlon) that would put me at 1.2 to 1 wing loading and never downsized even on subsequent buys. My reserve is almost as big as my main. If steady winds exceed 18 mph I wait for better conditions. I passed on manifesting for Twin Beech jumps on really hot days with loads that clearly exceeded max gross limits. I passed on really green Cessna piston jumpship pilots. I passed on having beer with lunch at a DZ where it was SOP. I could go on but you get the picture. I am not gloating or saying I am better than people who take more risk than I do. My point is that there are many things you can do (or more accurately NOT do) that will substantially reduce risk and still allow you to participate in the best sport on the planet. You won't be sharing granite skimming wingsuit videos with your friends but you can still have a great time.

"The best altimeter on the planet is... the planet." LOVE IT!!! I made my first 38 post training solo jumps with no altimeter. I was a struggling college student who would rather spend the money on jumps. I got good at spotting and good and visually estimating altitude over well-known terrain. I was once riding as a passenger on a corporate King Air in Brazil. The pilot came back into the cabin and asked how the passengers were enjoying the flight. He asked if we would care to guess how high the plane was flying. I told him I'd bet him I could nail it within 500 feet. He took the bet. I had a really great steak dinner on him in Sao Paolo. It got even better because he invited a friend who had flown A4 Skyhawks for Argentina in the Falklands War. The stories he told of attacking British ships at mast top height were riveting, enhanced by serial Caipirinhas. Still jump an old SSE Altimaster 2. I have all the fancy L&B stuff too, but I am an engineer and I'll take simple aneroid mech baro as my primary reference any day. No batteries needed. No electronic components to age or fail. Do you think Cooper had prior parachuting experience? Just wondering. 377

I keep seeing references to a 28 ft Conical. E.g.: "Sounds like to me that Cooper jumped with the 'military back pack parachute' the 28 foot conical, belonging to Hayden." There was no 28 ft Conical, only a 26 ft Conical. The 28 ft canopy was a C9 mil surplus round. 377

Cool story Dudeman, but very sad to hear that one of your ski slope skydive buddies went in. Camcorders and Dytters? When I started it was heavy WW2 surplus gun movie cameras that shot 16 mm film, not tape. Most of the gun cams required 24 volts DC to run, necessitating really heavy battery packs. There were a few 12 volt ones but they were very scarce and pricey. Developing 16 mm film was expensive, Every frame had to count. You didn't just leave it on and edit later. Steve Snyder made the first commercially successful audible altitude alert called the PARALERT. It had inadequate volume, I rarely heard mine amidst the freight train roar of freefall. Good to see fellow skydivers posting. We seem to bitch a little less than regular folks. 377

I missed that scary little detail. Good catch dudeman. Can you even imagine a static line in tow situation on a 727? Yikes. I was paying attn to the chase plane, which I believe was a turboprop equipped Beech 18, likely a Tradewind conversion. Air America had some of those. When I jumped from the DC 9-21 at WFFC Rantoul IL in 2006 they had removed the stairs and lined the exit area with smooth sheet metal to reduce snag risks. 377

727 range would have allowed reaching Mexico at normal long-range cruise altitudes, but Cooper demanded flight altitude of 10,000 feet. Those JT8Ds get REALLY thirsty at low altitudes, dramatically reducing range. I once got some right seat instruction time in a Lear 24 bizjet. The fuel burn rate ground taxying at 7 mph was darned close to the burn rate we saw at 42,000 ft going .86 Mach. Sure, those were turbojets on that ancient Learjet, not high bypass turbofans, but the principle is the same. 377

A very moving post E. Vicki. Brought a tear to my eye. Hope you can find out what happened to your Dad. 377

WolfRiverJoe wrote: "Oh yeah. I forgot all about the 'squidding' idea. One of the dynamics of round openings that is being lost to time (at least for sport jumpers) because we don't jump them anymore." Initially, I also thought that an immediate deployment off the off the stairs of the 727 at roughly 200 mph could prove fatal. Some early head down skydivers suffered fatal coronary artery dissections from huge G forces generated by accidental canopy openings at speeds well above terminal velocity. When I was searching for info on 727 jumps in SE Asia I connected with Dr. Joe Leker at U of Texas who is an expert on the history of covert air ops in SE Asia. He sent me a video of 727 S/L jumps which is now on YouTube included in an Air Americal documentary you can see here: (start at 1:07:56). I was quite surprised to see how gentle the deployments were. The "squidding" unique to round canopies, provided a very slow opening. 377

I am in my 51st year of skydiving, still active. Jumped at many CA DZs including Taft, Elsinore, Livermore, Antioch, Tracy, Pope Valley, Byron etc. Quincy and Rantoul IL too. So many good memories. I too had heard a rumor that DB Cooper jumped at Taft but no details at all. 377

Robert B, how do you get those killer deals on Amazon? Hope you find something relevant with your metal detectors. Needle in a haystack but still fun trying. 377

At my home DZ back in the 1960s they had rental chest reserves, $1 per jump. Seemed like a good deal to me until I read a couple of the packing cards: 24 ft TWILL (not Ripstop) canopies. No thanks. Bought a cheap surplus 26 ft Navy Conical (Ripstop fabric) and an Army chest container. Had Perry Stevens (D-51) assemble it and make it all legal (which involved cutting off some Navy canopy mod that had yellow nylon tape segments sewn between panels along the skirt, had some purpose in water landings). That 26 ft Navy Conical saved my life later on when I had to cut away from a high speed malfunction. I had heard horror stories about the 24 ft twill reserve canopies ripping from top to bottom on terminal openings. My trusty Navy Conical gave me a standup landing in the pea gravel. Still wonder about the Tosaw account of Cooper reading a packing card. Wish I could talk to Tina Mucklow about that alleged incident. Derek, what's with the attitude? Let's all be cordial here. There is room for disagreement without disrespect. No need to start the spiral into chaos that got this forum shut down last time. 377

"I considered the idea that if Number 1 rig doesn't work, he could have gone back up the stairs and put on the other instead. (?) " Hah. Never thought about that. If ANYTHING launched out of the container and into the windstream he would have likely been pulled off the stairs, but if he had a total container malfunction, like a badly bent pin that prevented the container from opening, he probably could have gone back up and swapped rigs. 377

I hadn't noticed that but you are right about the stale I&R Joe. The owner of the two rigs was a sport acro pilot. Wouldn't be the first sport pilot or sport jumper who got a bit behind on repacks. Not that I'd have any first-hand experience... 377

Nice to see this forum active again. Wolf River Joe, good to see you back! One thing that could tell us a lot about Cooper's parachute knowledge (if it could be confirmed) is the claim that Tosaw made about Cooper examining the packing card on an NB rig (whether it was NB 6 or NB 8 is disputed but the distinction is irrelevant for his issue). Tosaw claims that Tina saw Cooper remove and read the packing card. Whuffos don't even know that packing cards exist, much less what info they contain. The packing card pocket on NB 6 and NB 8 rigs is well concealed. If you don't know where to look it is hard to see the opening. I called Himmelsbach and discussed this issue with him. He said that there is nothing in the FBI files that supports Tosaw's claim about Cooper locating, extracting and reading the packing card. He implied that Tosaw made it up. I wish I knew if it was fact or fiction. 377

Nice to see this forum reopened. Let’s not get it shut down by uncivil behavior. I’ve been interested in the Cooper case ever since it happened. I initially figured Cooper HAD to be a skydiver. Now, decades later, I’m not so sure. I DO however think he HAD to know that a 727 airstair could be deployed in flight. Few knew that. The crew didn’t know. The flight manual didn’t address the question. The airline operations and tech people didn’t know. Boeing did know and the answer was yes. So how did Cooper know?

First jump at age 18 in 1968. Still jumping half a century later. I wanted to jump since I was age 12 and saw skydivers in action over Calistoga CA. It looked, to me, like the coolest thing in the universe. My folks believed in free-range parenting. They said "find a place that will train you, pay for it yourself and we will sign any and all liability waivers". I tried 3 places but none would train anyone under 18 regardless of parental waivers. I begged them to make an exception but they stood their ground. I was also fascinated with old propliner aircraft like Beech 18s, DC 3s, and larger 4 engined models. I used to spend weekend time hanging out at Oakland Airport North Field which in the 1960s had a collection of semi-derelict Constellations, Douglas DC 4, 6 and 7 and even an intact Boeing 377 Stratocrusier in Trans Ocean Airlines markings. In the pre TSA days it was easy to get access to the field. Many mechanics were glad to get free help and an extra set of hands from an airplane fanatic kid. I learned a lot about how those old planes were kept flying and about runaway props, fires, structural corrosion and other hazards of operating these old planes on a shoestring budget. I asked how I could get a ride in an old propliner and was told that skydiving was about the only way since none were flying scheduled passenger runs in CA and cargo planes couldn't legally carry passengers. One mechanic told me DC 3s and Twin Beeches were frequently used in skydiving and the rides were cheap. Turned out that Perry Stevens had a loft and training center right at the Oakland Airport North Fields so I signed up and became a jumper. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I have donated repeatedly to the museum as an individual, but do not think the USPA should. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

In 68 we used a surplus chest container spray painted red. Lines were not daisy chained but stowed in the bands (but not so carefully as a real reserve pack job). Canopy was a 24 ft twill. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

And Lord help you if your tailings have arsenic or other nasty stuff. Arsenic is often found near gold. State of CA requires remediation trust funds be set up and maintained if that happens. Sierra foothills are full of such sites. You can end up being on the hook for far more $ than you will ever extract in gold. I'd suggest some serious sampling and testing before you start operating a mine. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.