lilryno

For the record, VAPA accepted Chuck's offer above, and even offered to pay to travel to have the discussion. His posts were then deleted and he was banned. He asked me to post here and reaffirm his acceptance of Chuck's offer. My posts where then deleted, but noticeably Chuck's offer was not, making it seem as though Chuck offered and VAPA refused. I was then sent a message by BillVon: "Please do not attempt to continue the threats in SC in the thread with Chuck and VAPA. Any further threats will result in a ban." This despite the fact that all I did was pass VAPA's message that he accepted Chuck's invite. It appears DropZone.Com wants to protect Chuck's image as a tough guy who goes unanswered when he invites people he disagrees with to have a face to face conversation. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Please let me know and I will post or link to the screenshots showing that he accepted your offer and agreed to fly out to see you, before he was banned and those posts were all of the sudden deleted. I'm not sure if there is a copyright concern with screenshots so I don't want to post them without permission! "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Chuck, I'm confused. Did you offer to meet VAPA in person to have a face to face discussion only to have his acceptance of your offer (at his own expense) deleted, and then turn around and respond as if nothing had happened? If not, please post how you would like to be contacted to arrange this meeting. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Greetings forum members. I'm just the messenger here. I was asked by a buddy of mine (VAPA) to respond here. After a long debate on this thread, he says he was challenged by Chuck to a meeting in person to discuss the issue further. He told me that he posted that he was willing to meet to engage in a healthy exchange of ideas, and also agreed to a sporting physical match upon Chuck's request (as a way to break up a long debate and invigorate the discussion). I think he's silly, but he also said that he would agree to pay for travel to meet Chuck to have this exchange of ideas and sporting contest (he mentioned a mixed martial arts contest as an example, but told me wrestling or boxing or any other sport, or none at all, would also be fine as Chuck is interested). Apparently, however, after he posted this response to Chuck with these facts in his response to Chuck, for some strange reason he was then banned and all his responses to Chuck were deleted for some reason, making it seem like Chuck's offer went unanswered. I don't know all the details, but he asked me to convey for him: 1. The offer is still on - just name the time and place, and provide your name and email address so that he can take measures to ensure that him traveling to you will be safe for him (you can't be too safe with it being the internet and all). 2. He thinks it's sad that Chuck is allowed to challenge him to a healthy American debate face to face, and yet his posts are deleted while Chuck's challenge remains, making it seem like he didn't respond. 3. He said he did a screen capture of all the posts to prove the truth of events and will post it on the internet as is useful in case anybody thinks he is misrepresenting the truth. I personally don't want to get involved in whatever dispute is being had, but just wanted to pass the message for him that he is more than willing to meet with Chuck at no expense to Chuck at all. My buddy is a big fan of the exchange of ideas and seems very eager to have this conversation with Chuck. I also agree with Chuck and my buddy that it's good for people to talk face to face to sort out their differences and grow. I hope that I can pass any message along to help Chuck and VAPA have the meeting that Chuck so graciously offered to have. If I can be of any assistance, please let me know. I look forward to engaging more in this great forum. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

I don't believe I know Danny but I knew Bob. Amazing guy. He's the kind of guy that makes guys like me feel guilty. He practiced what he preached. He was a testament to excellence. When I met him I was amazed at how he blends youthful vitality (he had it even at his age) with maturity and wisdom. He was in amazing shape and the only thing that gave away his age was his greying mustache and the wrinkles around his eyes. I had the pleasure of talking with him about raising kids, military service and politics. He learned a great deal from his travels. He was eclectic and above stereotype. He was thoughtful, patient, and wise. He taught my wife how to skydive in Tallahassee. I remember feeling nervous about her jumping because she was very anxious and lacks the typical A type personality. I took a great deal of comfort knowing she was jumping with Bob. If anyone other than God could ensure my wife's safety it would be him. It's with a heavy heart I learned last night of his passing. He's given so much and worked so hard...and just when he was able to live the life he worked so hard for. My thoughts go out to his daughter and family. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

That's Saturday the 10th... "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

My wife and I are heading to the Orlando tunnel for a one hour block on Saturday (11-12pm). It's our first time. My wife has 10 jumps and I have 60. We don't have a coach, though, but would like to find one. Any recommendations? We live in Tallahassee and are driving down just for the tunnel. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

My wife and I are planning on heading down to Orlando for the weekend of April 10th to do our first round of tunnel time. She has 10 jumps and I have 60 (but I suck...mostly solo jumps). We want to purchase 30 mins a piece to get as good as we possibly can while we're there. Any pointers to maximize our training? Thanks. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Yeah absolutely. We've talked about it and will certainly talk about it some more. She jumped three times this last weekend, however, graduated AFF, had her first solo jump, and tip toe landed the canopy three times in a row (first times). She discovered the diving exit and said that has made her not scared in the plane because it's so stable. She seems to be enjoying it as she did the one other weekend where her dives went well. But she could be making herself enjoy it or something. We'll take a look at those other threads for sure. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

I don't doubt my abilities but it's for my wife. She's only got 9 jumps and she's been very anxious about skydiving lately. She's thinking about giving it up. So I'm hoping that with some good training on the ground she'll feel confident that she'll know what to do if she has a problem. And it will do me good too I think. The timing aspect is nice to get a feel for how quick it may be with a mal. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Good point about peeling and pulling correctly. I think I'm going to try to get ahold of a training harness to go along with the training altimeter and use both in concert with video presentations of canopy malfunctions. This ought to allow for some fairly useful drilling at home for my wife and me. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

I talked with the Digitude people and they say the freefall can be adjusted from 100-300 mph but the canopy descent is fixed at 20 fps (little more than 1000 feet per min). So that's not really going to meet my needs. I still haven't gotten any response from the Neptune people on what the training mode will do when they come out with it. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

That's a great idea... Thanks so much for the help. I'm going to check out both of those products right now. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Yeah...what I'm talking about is programming "malfunctions" into the altimeter for training on the ground. So if I want to open at 3500 feet the altimeter should be indicating a terminal descent until around 3000 where it starts a 1000'/min descent for a normal canopy ride or 3000'/min (for example) for some "malfunction". It would help simulate the time/altitude aspect of analyzing a malfunction and give some practice cross checking altitude while analyzing the canopy and looking for your decision altitude. I would use this with a DVD my wife and I made. Each chapter on the DVD is a different canoy opening and malfunction. So while seeing what malfunction she has on the TV she can go through procedures to correct the malfunction while watching the altimeter and then cutting away at decision altitude. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Just wondering if anybody knows anything about an altimeter training device where you can program fall rates into it at certain altitudes to simulate a skydive... Any such product like that out there? I would think it would be a pretty useful thing...surely somebody has thought of it. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

This is great discussion. Thanks for all these inputs. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Wow...that's roughly twice as fast as I figured... "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Yeah, I posted it both in General Discussions and in Safety and Training. Is that a foul? I'm new to the forum environment... "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Thanks for your inputs. I read somewhere (very not scientific process on my part) that if you spiral down under canopy you typically lose 2000' minute. That does seem kinda low to me too. So I figured a spinning malfunction would have a similar descent rate.... "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

I'm wondering about malfunctions and fall rates. Wondering if some of you smarter more experienced jumpers could check my assumptions regarding fall rates with malfunctions. I'm going to use these calculations in a malfunction simulator/drill on the ground. (I'm assuming a canopy with a 1:1 wing loading). These numbers are complete wags and NOT to be considered good. I do not know what I'm talking about which is why I'm asking for help! Assumption 1: Typical freefall results in loss of 1000' per 5 seconds. Assumption 2: Typical canopy performance results in 1000' per minute loss of altitude with a good canopy and no demand put on it. Assumption 3: A total malfunction results in 1000' per 5 seconds altitude loss. ASSUMPTION 4: A ball of crap, streamer, results in a fall rate of 1000' per 5 seconds (increase in drag from nylon offset by sitting jumper up in harness). ASSUMPTION 5: Bad Lineover malfunction results in 50'/sec loss of altitude (3000' per minute) with slider not down. ASSUMPTION 6: Linetwists result in 1200'/minute loss of altitude. ASSUMPTION 7: Any strong spinning malfunction results in 2000' per minute loss of altitude. Thanks very much for any pointers or corrections! "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Just wanted to let everybody know how helpful Aerodyne has been. I jumped on the promo train and ordered an Icon container - Pilot main - Smart Reserve back in January. Although they were cranking out my order I called them a few days ago to see if they wouldn't mind putting a "window" on my reserve flap. I saw a couple rigs like that and thought it was a great idea. Anyway, I shot them an email and they emailed me back and then called me a couple days later. And now I just got a confirmation that they're going to not only put the window on...but they're going to do it for free! I couldn't be happier with their customer support. Aerodyne rocks! "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

I'm wondering about malfunctions and fall rates. Wondering if some of you smarter more experienced jumpers could check my assumptions regarding fall rates with malfunctions. I'm going to use these calculations in a malfunction simulator/drill on the ground. (I'm assuming a canopy with a 1:1 wing loading). These numbers are complete wags and NOT to be considered good. I do not know what I'm talking about which is why I'm asking for help! Assumption 1: Typical freefall results in loss of 1000' per 5 seconds. Assumption 2: Typical canopy performance results in 1000' per minute loss of altitude with a good canopy and no demand put on it. Assumption 3: A total malfunction results in 1000' per 5 seconds altitude loss. ASSUMPTION 4: A ball of crap, streamer, results in a fall rate of 1000' per 5 seconds (increase in drag from nylon offset by sitting jumper up in harness). ASSUMPTION 5: Bad Lineover malfunction results in 50'/sec loss of altitude (3000' per minute) with slider not down. ASSUMPTION 6: Linetwists result in 1200'/minute loss of altitude. ASSUMPTION 7: Any strong spinning malfunction results in 2000' per minute loss of altitude. Thanks very much for any pointers or corrections! "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Air Ohio...cool, I'll check that out. A profile coming up. "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

I checked out that malfunction package at Sky Hi. Did I miss something on the website? 14 malfunction flashcards and a video tape...195.00?? "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings

Again I want to say thanks for that link. Fantastic! "The value of man lies not in the knowledge he possesses, or means to possess, but in the sincere pain which he hath taken to find it out." - G.E. Lessings