Erroll

I find it very curious how vociferously some folk have been denying the existence of any link between Iraq/Saddam and al-Qaeda, yet when Madrid gets bombed because of their involvement in Iraq, al-Qaeda claims responsibility and no one bats an eyelid?

From the above article : "According to tradition in south and south-eastern Afghanistan, a suitor must pay around $5000 to the parents of the girl he wishes to marry. " Donkeys (and sheep) are wayyyyy cheaper, and they don't sue

http://www.iafrica.com/news/worldnews/309893.htm

Well, clearly... Agreed. When I lived in New Orleans, I saw it all the time. In fact, I had the crap beat out of me by a minority. Maybe he was feeling oppressed and decided to take out his frustrations on me. Whatever. The point is, yes, when you have weapons or explosives or fists or knives or rocks and threaten the lives of innocent people, it gets attention. For a moment, it commands respect. But, I don't think trying to reason with or sign peace treaties with someone who is hell bent on destroying you because you are white or baptist or american or fighting a war or whatever is necessarily effective. In SA in the 70's and early 80's we used to joke that it would cost you and arm and a leg to go to the local Wimpy Bar. Literally. The terrorist who bombed Magoo's bar and killed and maimed innocent civilians is now a local chief of police and he is viewed by his former comrades as a freedom fighter. Victory is defined by whomever chooses to make the definition. The new Spanish government is claiming a victory. So are the terrorists. I totally agree with the sentiment that new, bigger and better Towers should be built. I didn't stop going to Wimpy Bars or shopping mals at the time of the bombings - that would have meant victory to the terrorists.

Kelly's Heroes. The longest day.

I seem to recall an incident several years ago where a (military?) parachutist died in Bloemfontein, South Africa, after suffering a compound fracture. Reported cause of death was 'Bone marrow entering the bloodstream'. Does this sound probable?

If one considers the real ecomic successes of countries like Taiwan, Singapore and Japan, I suspect it is presumptuous to assume that the presently oil-rich countries will simply shrivel up and die when their oil runs out. The above mentioned countries have never had natural resources of any kind. Throughout the OPEC countries education is mostly free and of a very high standard. They don't need you to educate them.

Do the Swiss grow sweet potatoes?

This thread is about low passes and my anecdote involves a low pass. There is a thread about students riding the plane down in Incidents. Feel free to post your thoughts on the subject there. Ps. If the instructor had stayed with me there would likely have been TWO thuds against the ramp. Imagine the pilot's face then!

She is in fact the prominent person I referred to earlier.

The plot thickens... The Star March 11, 2004 By Graeme Hosken, Jonathan Ancer and agencies The alleged mercenaries arrested in Zimbabwe are believed to have been on their way to a covert military training camp in Cameroon. The men were remnants of South Africa's defunct mercenary company Executive Outcomes. They were planning to join another former Executives Outcomes operative in Equatorial Guinea in an elaborate plot to overthrow President Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo, which was supposed to have taken place next week. The coup plot has been denied by the British-based company Logo Logistics, which employs the suspected mercenaries. The company claims they were going to provide security for mining operations in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

I understand that they also include ex Koevoet members and that they were employed by our old friends Executive Outcomes. Definitely not your typical mine security types! This whole somfu reminds me of the Ancient Order of Frothblowers getting caught in a similar fashion.

With a name like Bosveld he has to be!

I could ask you to define 'there' but I expect that would be pushing it!

I related this elsewhere in a different context but this is also a low pass story from the inside point of view. My most memorable ride down with the plane was way back in '91. I was completing my AFF at a CASA boogie in Mmabatho (SA). On the way to altitude my reserve pin dislodged causing the reserve PC to pop out. We were supposed to exit last which meant my instructor (Lob Lobjoy if I remember correctly) and I sat right up front (where the pilot couldn't see me). Lob made sure I had my PC tightly between my knees, sitting down, then he ran out the back for a 'sponsored' solo. The pilot, a very young, normally very competent airforce captain, didn't know or forgot that I was still there. Once the ramp had closed he made a rapid descent and (as was quite common then) he decided to 'buzz' the DZ..... The look on his face when he looked back towards the tail after his pull-up was abosutely priceless. It must have been me thudding into the ramp that got his attention! And no, we weren't using safety belts at the time.

Define 'nothing'.

Wow, and I got lambasted for my comments about wanting to put computer virus makers before a firing squad!! Burning tire around the neck?! WOW!! A VERY prominent person is on record as having said that "With our tyres and our matches we will liberate South Africa". These so-called 'necklasses' were in fact a regular sight here in the 80's. A particularly horrible way to die. But then so is being hacked to pieces by a machette wielded by a drugged-up Fifth Brigade 'soldier' in Mashonnaland. I forget the exact number but the dead were counted in the thousands. It doesn't really matter to me whether Mugabe is taken out by a WMD or a .22 rimfire - he has got to go.

Jeffrey, your entire tone is abbrasive, your language is crass (to put it mildly), your arguments get lost in your tirades and you appear to lack the ability to respect anybody else's opinions but your own. I agree with you - it is a very good thing that you are not responsible for the foreign policy of your country.

I am the person who said that and I was very clearly joking. Allow me to refresh your memory : Ps. If you insist on keeping this a political thread (which was not the intention), I live only about 500 miles from the Zimbabwe border. I am extremely well informed about the situation there and I'm not 'forgetting' anything. Robert Mugabe is a paranoid, homophobic megalomaniac who has demonstrated over and over again that he doesn't give a damn about his own people. Since the so-called land-resettlement began Zim's agricultural output dropped by around 80%. Zim used to be a net exporter of food. Now around two thirds of the country's people are living below the breadline while Mugabe and his cronies live in luxury. Mugabe has shown his contempt for the law so often that it is not even reported on anymore. Whenever a judge rules against him or his party (which has been almost every case the courts heard), the judge simply gets removed. Whenever the one opposition newspaper prints anything Mugabe doesn't like, the newspaper's offices get bombed. Short of a military overthrow there is nothing the rest of the world can do. Sanctions will only hurt the already starving ordinary folk (most of whom are already dependent on international food-aid). The most recent elections were condemned by every international observer (except of course the ANC's delegation - no surprises there), so the electorate are powerless too.Peer-pressure from other Southern African leaders is almost non-existent and where it does appear to be present it is mere lip service. Nope - that once beautiful and successful country has already become another post-Uhuru African basket case with very little hope of recovery. This was all predicted even before Lancaster House but Brittain was too eager to get Rhodesia off their hands to consider the long term effects of their sell-out. So- here we are.

I can assure you, the last country our government would ever ask for help is the US. Unless of course you have produced an over-supply of sweet potatoes and need a market for them.

Back in '76 when we (SA) had some of our Recces already beyond Luanda and the US had ships/troops in support just off the coast of Angola, they (I suspect the CIA) suddenly decided that it was no longer prudent to assist the SA forces. The SA forces, having relied on the US support, had stretched their supply lines too far. The rest, as they say in the classics, is history. And Angola has loads of oil. Diamonds too. Makes one think...

I too live in Africa and I agree with everything you stated. To our less than peaceful contributer and the rest, I started this thread with my tongue firmly in my cheek. While Zimbabwe is indeed a beautiful country it has (at the moment) very little to offer any potential "invaders" and I just found it mildly amusing and a tad ironic that a plane load full of mercenaries and military 'equipment' should turn up there of all places! One could speculate that they were on their way to Haiti, Iraq, Cuba or anywhere else, but Zimbabwe? It still has to be proven of course that they are actually mercenaries and not a bunch of witch doctors with a plane load full of garlic, onions and olive oil, supplied by the WHO, on their way to SA to help treat our Aids sufferers!

Yup - If I had to choose only one it would most likely be them. Just read that David Crosby (Crosby, Stills and Nash) was arrested for possesion. As a band they weren't all bad either!

What, no oil there so no interest? No oil (never had any), but also no more tobacco exports, no more beef exports, no more viable agriculture, inflation running at over 650% - not a lot to be interested in.

According to The Star : SA-owned plane 'with mercenaries, weapons' held in Zim March 9, 2004 By Basildon Peta and Peter Fabricius The Zimbabwean government has seized a South African-owned Boeing 727 aircraft allegedly carrying 64 mercenaries and weapons. South Africans were reportedly among the mercenaries said to be on board. Sources in the Zimbabwean government yesterday said the incident had heightened the government's fears of a "foreign-sponsored invasion of Zimbabwe". The aircraft was impounded at Harare International Airport on Sunday night "after its owners had made a false declaration of its cargo and crew," said Home Affairs Minister Kembo Mohadi in a statement yesterday. "The plane was actually carrying 64 suspected mercenaries of various nationalities." Mohadi said an investigation had also uncovered military equipment. The Zimbabwean government claimed the Boeing was US-registered. Reports from Harare say Zimbabwean state television footage showed the number N4610 on the side of the white aircraft. US Federal Aviation Administration records show N4610 to be a 727 plane registered to Dodson Aviation Inc based in Ottawa, Kansas. Last night Robert Dodson, owner and CEO of Dodson Aviation, confirmed his company had bought the aircraft from the US Air Force in 1985 and sold it last week to Logo Ltd, a South African company which he thought was based in Pretoria. No trace of this company could be found last night.