RogerRamjet

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I'm not sure when Steve died, it must have been at least 20 years ago, maybe someone knows.

He did help save many of our lives that day of our loadstall.

I met Steve in Hinkley when Bill Buchmann and I flew the Loadstar up from Z-Hills for the summer of 75. I was building Bill's Eagle rigs for him at the time.

Roger Nelson wrote about Steve and me (among others) in Pat Works' "United We Fall" book. Here is a link to chapter 5 of the book. If you scroll down to "Pre Stars, Hey man, you're late," you can see what Roger had to say: http://users.cis.fiu.edu/~esj/uwf/uwf5.htm

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It seemed like we were in a dive for a really long time, but I think the plane recovered at nearly 12,000. Jumprun was just over 15,000. Randy Kempf and Steve Graas (RIP) were in the cockpit. One of them told us that it took the strength of them both to pull the plane out of the dive.

Thanks for that; it could well be a different stall that my story eludes to.

I was not aware Steve Graas had died, do you know from what?

Do we know each other (you've been in the sport long enough)?

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Randy DeLuca took this photo at The Gulch in Arizona sometime in (I think) 1974.
A few folks managed to get out, including the guy just above the tail, and the rest of the load rode it down to about 7000 feet before the pilot got it back under control.
They don't call them Lodestalls for no reason.

The photo tells it all; no gear down. That's 500lbs about 6 feet aft of where it would be when down. Bill Buchmann used the same setting Poppenhager eluded to, about 90 kts with gear down and full flaps.

If the story that got back to us (at Z-Hills) was correct, the pilot of the aircraft in the photo was just out of the Air Force as a test pilot. He got the aircraft under control after lowering the gear on the way down. We heard the recovery was at about 4000 ft.

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You are right-getting old sucks, but it does beat the alternative.

The bad news is I got another year older.
The good news is I got another year older...

Hi Pat; so you're going to have another surgery to repair the ACL? Hope you heal up fast. And yes, getting old sucks...

It's interesting (as a rigger) to note that the main lift web high stress stitching areas are done with a 3 point diamond stitch instead of the 4 point diamond stitch used here in the US. I wonder if the webbing or the stitching would fail first in a pull test.

I suspect our method may be overkill, but once used to a certain thing, it's a bit scary to see something that looks less substantial holding your harness webbing together...

Nice to see others having to do more than the minimum... I started in 73 at Z-Hills where it was supposed to be 2 SL followed by 3 DRCP. Then on to 3 clear and pull (or hop and pop), 3 5s, 3 10s, 3 15s, 3 20s and I believe 1 30 after which you were on your own. You also had to spot starting around the 15s delays I believe.

I sucked as a student and did 9 static lines. On number 9, the type 8 webbing holding the D-Ring to the pilot seat let go and the entire static line followed me out of the plane. The JM saw me reaching for my reserve handle when the main opened and cleared me for freefall. I still sucked doing several 5 and 10 second delays that amounted to hop and pops because I counted too fast or just wanted the chute open. Surprised I never got the bowling talk. Once I got past terminal, I seemed to get the idea though and went on to participate in several world records and other parachuting firsts.

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"His fall should take about seven to eight minutes. If he makes it successfully, he'll have proved his point that astronauts can safely eject from a spacecraft that's malfunctioned. And that's what his mission is all about."

I don't really get that part. If an astronaut ejects from an orbiting spacecraft, they would still need to bleed off the 17,500mph orbital speed somehow. It's not the same as falling straight down from a balloon (which is admittedly very difficult from that kind of altitude to begin with)...

The comment you cite does not include the word "orbit" or any reference to speed. This is about launch and return malfunctions. NASA guys can correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall, the Challenger astronauts were all alive inside the crew module from the explosion altitude of about 50K until impact with the water, way more than enough time to get out.

The Columbia crew also had at least a couple of minutes warning that the wheels were coming off their buggy, but I don't know where they were in terms of speed and altitude so I don't know if they coulda gotten out of there or not.

But it's inside-the-atmosphere egress they're talking about here, not orbit.

I didn't read it that way, but I certainly agree that something for launch failures would be a good thing. Yes, the Challenger crew was alive until impact. There were emergency oxygen setups on each crew member and they were manually activated. The ones on the pilot and co-pilot could only be activated by crew members sitting behind them. That's one of the ways it was determined they survived the explosion.

I don't think the Columbia crew survived to a slow enough speed for this type thing to work; such an event would probably require some sort of ejection capsule (IMO).

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"His fall should take about seven to eight minutes. If he makes it successfully, he'll have proved his point that astronauts can safely eject from a spacecraft that's malfunctioned. And that's what his mission is all about."

I don't really get that part. If an astronaut ejects from an orbiting spacecraft, they would still need to bleed off the 17,500mph orbital speed somehow. It's not the same as falling straight down from a balloon (which is admittedly very difficult from that kind of altitude to begin with)...

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You're not allowing for the time shift of future shock . . .

NickD

That's 'cause I'm stuck in "present shock." Anyway, your point is valid, I was just messing with you a bit

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I remember the Double Dactyl rigs. They were being manufactured in Elsinore by someone, Handbury maybe, in the late 70s. Or was it Guardian?

The poor Paradactyl shared the same fate as the medieval crossbow (the weapon, not the canopy.) Crossbows were better than any other stand off weapon of the time like the Dactyl was better than any round of the time. But the crossbow was invented just prior to gun powder and the Dactyl came around just prior to the squares becoming popular.

NickD

Just prior??? The cross bow was invented around the 4th or 5th century BC. Gunpowder was invented around 8th centruy AD. I think the cross bow had a pretty good run as the preferred stand off weapon there...

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No....she was an actress, and I was only interested in getting the commercial done.

The guy who plays me in the commercial is Larry Costello, who handed me the chute on my 1st chuteless jump Aug 20 1969.

He is now a Doctor.

The girl????no idea who she was...where she is....but she would likely be about 70+ years old now, since I am in my 78th year.

I am not a drinker,... and Mike Swain from Sarasota Florida, says that I am the only guy he has ever seen order a glass of cold milk in a bar ( back in 1972 when we were filing my 2nd chuteless jump.)

regards


Bill

Yeah, I didn't expect she still looks like that, but very attractive then!

I know/knew Mike, but never shared time in a bar with him. If I had, he might have seen someone else order a milk or coke as I'm also a non drinker. There were only a handfull of "straight" jumpers at Z-Hills when I was there and I was certainly one of the very few who didn't drink OR smoke though I certainly hung out with both groups. We used to play a game at the Valley View Resteraunt and Bar called Dead Ants. This was really hard on me as I was not intoxicated enough to absorb the impacts with the floor

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I have never had a beer, or even tasted it in my life, and have been involved in about 10 beer commercials.

Bill

I just want to know if you asked the girl in the commercial out

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I had about 300 jumps on mine. Bought it from one of Carl D's friend from S. FL. It was red with gold arrow. I shortened the lines about 3 feet (advice from Billy Revis) then the cutaways started. Should not take advice from a guy that liked to cutway!!

Billy used to pull the center lines down on his until it streamered and then let go at a pretty low altitude. I think he got Hoop's attention once or twice that way (among others).

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Nothin' beats a round engine. Here's the Stinson V-77 we jumped in El Paso back in the 70's and early 80's. Hell to land in a stiff crosswind.....

I have some Stinson jumps at the Miami Glider Port back in the mid 70s. All I really remember is it was LOUD and seems like there was some effort required to taxi if there was any wind...

Happy birthday Bill!

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Hi folks.

The Tampa Sky Divers moved to a sod farm in Brandon and then Riverview where Mac McGraw ran operations.

I'm not so sure about the bolded part of that. When it was at the Sod Farm, Cliff and Patty Dobson were running it (at least while I was jumping there). I know that Cliff moved to near Mulberry where he still is and it's still called Tampa Bay Skydivers. Not saying it might have been Mac's for a while, just don't remember that...

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Edited to add: Different name. I just looked up Cliff's place and it's called Skydive Tampa Bay. Maybe Tampa Skydivers moved to Mac's and Cliff took over the Sod Farm?

Cliff & Patty Dobson left Z-hills and opened an operation at the Sod Farm around 1979. From what I understand there used to be a DZ there in the past. A group of us that were into CRW at the time (me, Cilff, Ferd Boger, Frank Cater, Mike Lewis) moved there, did students, got involved with AFF and ended up winning the 4 Man Gold & 8 Man Silver at the First World Cup of CRW that Hooper hosted at Z-hills.

Then after I drove my motorcycle through fresh plowed and planted sod at the Sod Farm, we ended up having to move to Riverview, which I think was the original Tampa Bay Parachute Ranch. Mac McGraw did some of the flying there for us.

Roger, I'm trying to remember, did we met at Sod Farm or somewhere else?

Then later I moved back to Z-hills and became a proud grunger!

I started jumping at Cliff and Patty's Sodd Farm sometime in late 77 or early 78 and jumped there on and off until 1980. I'm sure we've met, but not sure if it was there or at Z-Hills. Here is a link to a photo of me at the Sod Farm in 1978 (at least it says 1978 on the back of the snap shot).

http://www.dropzone.com/photos/Detailed/Personal/Left_to_right_Roger_Clark_-_Traci_Trimble_-_Greg_Baker_110879.html Greg Baker jumped there quite a bit then also. Bob Todd was flying most of the loads I went on.

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Hi folks.

The Tampa Sky Divers moved to a sod farm in Brandon and then Riverview where Mac McGraw ran operations.

I'm not so sure about the bolded part of that. When it was at the Sod Farm, Cliff and Patty Dobson were running it (at least while I was jumping there). I know that Cliff moved to near Mulberry where he still is and it's still called Tampa Bay Skydivers. Not saying it might have been Mac's for a while, just don't remember that...

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Edited to add: Different name. I just looked up Cliff's place and it's called Skydive Tampa Bay. Maybe Tampa Skydivers moved to Mac's and Cliff took over the Sod Farm?

Shots at Skydive City from Saturday including some of the "old farts" talked about in this thread:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16626901@N00/sets/72157623605573411/

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Wish I could have been there.
Larry

I would love to see you again as well. I know Mike Branch spoke with you later about it. Maybe next time we set one of these up you can attend.

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Z-Hills

This is the old "Rangers" Building. Across from Porter's hanger/office.
A few years before Jeff took over.

Just hung out with Bob and Richard Porter at Z-Hills Saturday. Talk about a trip in the way back machine!

Also present were Mike Branch, Rob and Cheryl Brown, Steve Fugleberg, Peanuts (Marvin) and Carol Wacaser, Phil Smith, and Ski and Donna Chmielewski. With Mike, Rob, Steve, Peanuts and me, that's 5 members of Hooper's 1975 Ten High Bunch speed star team. We would have had 6, but Mike Woods had a prior commitment.

For anyone who knew Jane Lambdin from Z-Hills mid 70s skydiving, there will be a memorial jump/get together at Z-Hills on March 27th starting around Noon.

Since her brother Walter was on Hooper's 10 High Bunch, there will be a few of the team members there including Rob Brown, Mike Branch, Peanuts and Me. Possibly Mike Woods if he's not at a meet elsewhere. I know there will be some other old time Z-Hills jumpers there as well.

I believe the jumping (mostly Tandoms) will start at 1:00pm. Anyone on facebook can search for "memorial skydive for Jane Lambdin Orlando."

Happy birthday Pat!

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Hey fuzz face are talking of Grason Garb? I don't remember but 3 deaths in Deland from 78-82

Burke
"skyskeeter"

Who were the other two?

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Seems like I saw Hooper do a ton of standups on his. Couple of cutaways too though...

Good memory, Rog--
I'd guess 95% of my T-bow landings were standups, and a fair few demos into tight DZs. And yeah, a couple of malfunctions I decided to leave behind. If I'm not mistaken, they were your reserve pack jobs I rode down.
Hoop

Hoop,

Yeah, I know for sure one of them was my save.
I remember you saying the mal was low speed and the pilot chute went to the end of the bridle and didn't extract the reserve until you fell another hundred feet or so. Those pop-top containers were pretty tight with a 26 Navy in them...
You and I looked everything over and decided the 36" bridle was long enough (didn't want too long) and left it as is.