CooperNWO305

Good way of putting it. "possibly brown" meaning probably dark.

I agree with Robert, again. We disagree on some other things, but probably agree on more than we disagree on. The "possibly brown" is used to support suspects with blue eyes. Plain and simple. On Unsolved Mysteries Flo was adamant about remembering the eye color and his eyebrows. Question for Parrothead or any others, if the FBI said "possibly brown" then why not say "possibly blue" or "possibly green"???

Opening up the suspect list to the following would increase the number of suspects considerably Males between the age of 28 and 55 (Rackstraw and McCoy were 28) Males with blue eyes or brown eyes (hazel would be brown). Anyone with skydiving or military parachute experience that fits those ages (that would be anyone who served in the 101st Airborne, 82nd, 17th, etc.). All air crews who wore harnesses/chutes, pilots, etc. etc. Any females who got gender re-assignment surgery like suspect Barb Dayton Anyone with an American accent, to include those from Canada or those who came to the US as youths. Etc. Etc. Etc. My point is that if we don't narrow it down, then the possible list is huge. I predict that if this case is solved, that Cooper will have had brown eyes and will have been over 40 at the time of the hijacking.

Agreed. The favorite defense of the eye color is along the same lines as the age defense that the Rackstraw and McCoy people use. They cite that witness testimony or witness remembrance is sketchy. I was listening to a podcast on the DC Sniper this morning and a professor from Iowa State was talking about how the witnesses in that case were all over the place. The big difference between the Cooper case and some of these other cases like the DC sniper is that the Cooper witnesses had a long time to look at him. If the rationale used by the Rackstraw group on age, or the blue eyed folks was legitimate, then why would the courts ever use witness testimony for cases?

Some background on RMI and titanium. The process is described as well as some reference to military applications.

How do we know for certain that RMI was the only company in the world using this process? When did the other companies stop? Did RMI state they were the only ones or did someone call all the other companies? I’ve heard this before, and I don’t doubt the honesty of the people, I’d just be curious to see some solid proof. It just seems too easy that they’ve narrowed down where the titanium came from.

Very good points about the scrap metal. Good story. Update on the train. They are fun to look at and ride, but not so good when the house you’re sleeping at is next to a rail yard.

It’s 1130 PM on the East Coast. I’m watching a CSX locomotive leaving a rail yard. Anyone who thinks Cooper could not have got on a train is dreaming.

Steel is an alloy. Was there steel on the tie? Maybe. What elements are in steel? Were any of those found on the tie?

A number of researchers believe we can narrow down the exact location of where the tie was (Where Cooper worked). This seems a little optimistic. Regardless, one of the fallacies floating around is that titanium could only be found at a few companies (Oregon, Ohio, etc.). Another is that the largest producers were these companies. Another is that only commercially pure titanium could be found at these companies. All false. The largest producer of titanium in the US was not RMI, it was Titanium Metals, headquartered in NY, then moved to NJ. Also, they produced commercially pure titanium. These articles are snips from 1968 and 1969. Titanium was not as rare as we are led to believe, and commercially pure titanium was not as rare either. Cooperland has taken the Citizen Sleuth's titanium research as gospel.

Could have been an accident, could have been on purpose. I think he did it on purpose. He was brazen about a number of things, so why not the tie? That was his Ace of Spades calling card. I wonder if he did leave a calling card, did he also take a souvenir (something besides the $200k)? I've even thought that he may have taken pictures.

I'm not going to go as far as calling the tie a red herring, but it is close. People use the tie to claim Cooper worked at Boeing, or Tektronix, or now the newer one is RMI Titanium in Ohio. The tie was dropped on the plane in 1971, but the FBI did not even make this public until sometime in the 2000's. There is no telling how much this tie was contaminated through the years. I believe the tie was the same tie that Cooper came on the plane with. Was it his tie, a friend's, or from a second hand shop, or did he take it from a manager at his shop? Hard to say. Where did all the particles come from? Again hard to say, but chances are this was a tie worn by a front line manager versus a bank type manager. The particles indicate some sort of manufacturing environment versus say a teacher, lawyer, banker, etc. There is a lot of misleading information about the titanium out there in Cooperland.

The first letter of the serial number matches the Federal Reserve letter on the left side of the bill, so changing that would not be the number one choice. I considered that he may have wanted to change the last letter, but like you said there were very few that ended in C.

Definitely very low odds. If that C was a B, I'd want to dig a lot deeper. Unlikely that someone would erase a B and make it a C, but it is possible. Wonder what year that $20 is? I don't know what would have happened if the FBI had found one or even a a few of Cooper's $20's. Look at the effect of the Tina Bar money and all the speculation. If a few $20's had shown up in circulation, maybe they could track those back to a certain store/cashier, etc. Money does move around fast though. If the FBI had found $20's, it would add more weight to the theory that Cooper survived, but not make it 100% certain that he did. Using probability distributions, I'm certain the FBI could have ruled in or out that a Cooper $20 was in circulation. But the effort had to be put into it around 1971 to 1975 or so.

Can you post a pic?

Here is the truth- Robert Rackstraw was DB Cooper Walter Reca was DB Cooper Barb Dayton was DB Cooper etc, etc. etc. The truth is what people want to believe or what they see in the media and don't take the time to basic research to confirm/deny. "It's not a lie if you believe it" George Costanza.

I agree with ParrotHead. Good analogy with the Zodiac movie. That film was great and had top actors and actresses. What did it do for the case? They are still debating it like we are Cooper. On the height. Don’t forget that Cooper was seen standing up by Dennis Lysne the ticket agent, the gate agent, passengers, and then at least one flight attendant walking across the tarmac and onto the plane. Robert. I disagree with you on your comments about The Cooper Forum. I think it’s a great place. There are some personalities on there, but there are also the top DB Cooper researchers too. Dropzone is a good supplement.

One way to measure public interest in the case is to track views of the DB Cooper entry on Wikipedia. The biggest days were around 2016 when the FBI "closed" the case, and Case Closed came out. Since then there is a spike on the anniversary, or on days that a DB Cooper documentary is shown or re-shown (Case Closed, Expedition Unknown, etc.). But none of these comes close to the visits in 2016. So, even if there is a new show that comes out, or a movie, it will likely end up with just a small spike in visits. Interest will probably peak around the 50th anniversary, but it will take something real big to get sustained interest. One big reason is the age of those interested (usually over 35 or even older). Another issue is the 24 hour news cycle and access to so many other things. Frankly, we'd be better off if this was the 1980's and there was no internet or Netflix to take people's time. To get interest to really increase, it will take the FBI re-opening the case or someone finding a $20. It sounds like some of the Cooper folks are trying to get more publicity for the case, but I predict that any publicity will be brief, like with Reca.

The FBI had some info that made them not consider KC to be a prime suspect. https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/FBI-rejects-latest-D-B-Cooper-suspect-1253715.php I got lost in all the back and forth here. How tall was Kenny? My thoughts on height are that yes, it can be subjective. If a friend of mine called me up and asked me how tall they are, I would probably only be able to get in a range or heights, or I would say, you're around my height, etc. I think if DB Cooper was real tall, say 6 feet or above, or real short, maybe 5'8 or so or less, then that would be a qualifier/disqualifier. However, if he was in that range of just "average" then there is not a lot to go on. From my understanding of reading a lot of the 302's, he was not short, he was not tall. He was just average. Average at that time was probably around 5' 10" If DB Cooper was walking around, would people look at him and say, "he's tall" or would they say "he's short" or would they not say anything at all? There are a few things about Cooper that really seemed to stand out to people: his hair, his age, his demeanor, and I believe his dark brown eyes.

Robert: Family members say a lot of things, just think of Marla, the Reca group, etc. My opinion is that DB Cooper's family may very well not want anyone to know who he is. For a minute I thought it would be cool if my grandfather was DB Cooper, but then I realized that there are many ways for the hijacking to come back and bite the family. As far as I'm concerned, a death bed confession is a strike against someone being DB Cooper. Just because Kenny's mother got a loan, does not make him DB Cooper. And when you say "testify" do you mean under oath or in front of a grand jury? Hundreds of people have claimed to have information on DB Cooper, but none of them are in jail. Someone is lying or exaggerating. The FBI does not talk to people much, and when they do it is to acknowledge receipt of material. If one agent tells someone something, this does not constitute "The FBI said this", all it means is that one agent made a comment. The Rackstraw and Reca groups both claim to have FBI agents supporting them, or former agents. Someone is wrong, as it could not be both Reca and Rackstraw. One of the reasons the FBI is so close mouthed about the case is because any comment they make will be taken out of context and used to build a case for just one suspect. One thing is for certain, the FBI has officially stated that a number of individuals are not likely to be DB Cooper. This does not mean though that if they have not said a name that this person is DB Cooper. We've seen a few Cooper researchers say "The FBI has not ruled out so and so" Whatever. They have not ruled out Ted Cruz's father either.

I and a number of others believe the FBI thought this would be a slam dunk case from the start, hence the lack of urgency even on the day after during the search. They may have figured Cooper would be caught right away, or someone would turn him in, or he would get caught on another crime, or do something to stand out, like spending all the money. As the years dragged on, they realized this was not the case. Their approach would have been drastically different back then had they known what we know now. I see the FBI as having spread their resources thin by chasing every suspect that was phoned in, versus targeting their efforts. Granted they did target their efforts on skydivers, military parachutists, etc., but they did not seem to spread their efforts far enough. Example: They focused on the Pacific Northwest, skydivers, military, those with certain grudges, etc. By flooding every region of the country, more grudges, more types of people, they may have been able to shake something loose. There were roughly 20 million males in the United States in 1971 within the age range of the hijacker. There are maybe 20 suspects who make the list these days, so the reality is that of the 20 million people that could have done this it is highly unlikely that any current suspect is DB Cooper (just by the numbers). I believe that if the FBI was told in 1971 that they would not solve this for 50 years, that they likely would have taken a different approach. If they had opened up to some of the current theories, then maybe one enterprising agent would have cracked the case. I wonder where this case would even be without Larry Carr and what he did. Maybe it would be nowhere. Hindsight is always 20-20 though.

What do you mean by adding/inventing? This whole case is theory. Every suspect is really just a theory, including yours. What real evidence do we have? A black tie, worn by hundreds of thousands of people in 1971? A drawing of a middle aged man who may have had brown eyes? 300 bills found at Tina Bar that only have added to speculation? Without speculation and theory none of these suspects would even have a spot on Wikipedia. Don't confuse evidence with information. I agree, there is no evidence that he doctored the 20's, but then again, there is no evidence that he didn't. None of the money showed up in circulation, some theories say no one was looking, but we have not interviewed everyone. How do we know that there was not some random casino employee obsessed with this case like we are who was looking for 20's. Average salary in 1971 was around $7,000. That means Cooper could have gotten away with over 25 years worth of salary. Even if he took 30 minutes under a microscope fixing a $20 (worth $120) that is an hourly rate of $240. Not bad. The money piece for me is a theory, it got me involved in the case, just like the Tina Bar find keeps people engaged, or the air stairs, or his aviation experience. Without theories and speculation this case goes cold. Unless you start talking aliens, then from my perspective most theories can be considered. I've seen the whole "that is not evidence" or "the evidence does not support this" as a way to discount many possible theories. I've used it myself, but try to use it sparingly and on glaring issues, or on people who have done zero research on the case. Georger likes to use the whole scientific evidence piece on people when they start coming up with theories.

How do you know the ink will run? I just told you I did it with basic supplies. Maybe a 1969 bill was different. But not that different. There are all sorts of inks and pencils he could have used. Besides, he didn’t need ink to doctor the 1963As. You don’t use a Sharpie or a magic marker. Counterfeiters made money all the time and the ink didn’t always run. They would get busted because of the paper or because of the intricate detail that they could not duplicate. Making a 3 into an 8 is not intricate. Regardless, doctoring the bills is a theory. We know now that he could have spent the money and not got caught. Maybe that’s what he did. Max Gunther’s Dan LeClair says he spent it, and also had some of it boxed up to send back. However, someone with printing experience would certainly have thought about trying to change the serial numbers. They may have decided it was not a good idea though.

He would only have to alter at most 9,700 bills. The 10,000 that left the plane minus the 300 on Tina Bar. Of those 9,700, only the 1963A's could be altered in method 1 (erase the A and make it a 1963 series) and only a certain portion could be altered in method 2, which is those that had a 3 in their serial number. However, if you combine the 1963A bills with those 1969 bills with 3's and 8's, you have a lot bills. Remember, a $20 in 1971 is worth about $120 now, so a little bit of time to change the bill is worth it. He could even have made a stamp to do it quickly, or use a machine. Cashiers are not looking for doctored serial numbers, they are looking for counterfeit bills. Cooper's $20's were not counterfeit. Trust me, unless they had a microscope, they could not have seen that he doctored the bills. I used real basic items to test out my theory, and then showed the bills to people and no one could see what I had done. As a side note, I worked around a lot cash at one point in my life, we looked for major issues like paper feel, paper weight, color, size of paper, thickness. Some people would try to take a one dollar bill and paste on 5's, 10's, 20's, etc. Those things stood out. Changing one serial number that is around Font 10 would never have caught someone's eye. Erasing a tiny A would definitely not have caught someone's eye. Side note: William J. Smith had a number of hobbies. One was model airplanes, another one was printing. Another one was stamp collecting. He was a meticulous man when he wanted to be.

This is a rough concept of what I would have done with the bills. 1. The easiest thing to do would be to erase the A in 1963A. Easily done with nail polish remover. 2. Second option would be to change any serial number with a 3 to an 8 with a little bit of green ink. Or erase 8s and make them 3s. I’ve tried all 3 methods and they work. Early on I thought that DB Cooper could have been a counterfeiter, and there was actually a suspect who had been busted for counterfeiting. Melvin Wilson I think. Someone with basic skills could have fixed the bills. Someone with printing or art experience could easily have done it. An option for the FBI would be to have gathered as many $20's as possible, and focused on the ones from the San Francisco Federal Reserve (Code L). Over 75% of the bills were from there. Once they had a good enough sample size (25,000 bills or so), they could have looked for a Cooper $20 undoctored, or look for a $20 that had a serial number close to one of the Cooper bills. It would be a lot easier today though just using Microsoft Excel.