DFS346

Here's D. B. (sorry, Dan) Gryder's latest video in the D. B. Cooper series:

Dan Gryder's fourth YouTube video on DB Cooper ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RvjJx0WUac

In this new video, Dan Gryder announces inter alia that he has done his "D. B. Cooper" jump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BmsEA2x1zo He says he will post video of the jump on his channel.

Here are Dan Gryder's three latest YouTube videos in which he brings up D. B.Cooper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFAnWlxwgc8 (roughly at 3m45s through 5m30s): In the third of these, Mr Gryder says inter alia that: * he (alone) knows who D. B. Cooper was (or is) * he has recorded a podcast with Darren Schaefer for The Cooper Vortex * he is planning a parachute jump at the spot where (he believes) D. B. Cooper jumped.

Coming soon to a bookstore near you ...

In November 2020 I wrote to the Frank Mae Loesch who is listed in Galveston, Texas. Around January this year I wrote to Dr Ellen Keyt, daughter of the late Lt. Col. Roy Keyt. So far I did not receive a response.

A retired USAF colonel responded to my enquiry on the F-106 Delta Dart group. I think that he will not mind if I share his recollections, as follows: "Though a squadron pilot with the 318th the night of Flight 305, I like all of my squadron mates were at a formal dining-in at the McChord Officers Club. We heard of course that our alert aircraft has been scrambled and subsequently learned that they were training a commercial aircraft that has been hijacked. Frankly, we hadn’t ever heard to that point of an aircraft hijacking. We subsequently learned of the DB Cooper connection in the days that followed. I do recall that the weather that evening was awful! It was one of the Northwest’s better storms and I recall discussing our concern for our alert pilots having to fly on such an evening. ... My recollection was that one of our majors, Frank Loesch was leading the flight, but can’t recall who the other pilot might have been. [DFS346: another source identified that pilot as Roy Allen Keyt.] I know too how much difficulty they had trailing the commercial airliner because of how slow it was flying. The F-106 did not like speeds below 200 knots. Any alerion movement below that speed would likely lead to a stall and subsequent spin. Very bad in that kind of weather and as low to the ground as they apparently were. Judge they probably had to have their gear down to stay safely behind 305. Having the gear down greatly reduced the possibility of the stall-spin scenario, Judge you are aware that after that evening we held an annual DB dining-in for many years to come…proving there’s a silver lining in most things. Wish I could provide more detail at present but the memories are not as clear as they once were. I’ve also not been in contact with any of my squadron mates in the years since so can’t at present connect with them for more detail." Re-reading this, I note that the two pilots were majors (not captains) at the time.

According to a member of the F-106 Delta Dart group on Facebook, the lead pilot was Capt. Frank Loesch and the wingman was Capt. Roy Allen Keyt. Frank Loesch may be still alive. It was reported that he had intended to retire to Texas. There is a Frank Mae Loesch, aged about 87, listed in the white pages for Galveston, Texas. Roy Keyt died in a mid-air collision on 03.03.1992. To the best of my knowledge, they were never interviewed.

The FBI has assigned a FOIA number to my request for page KA-3 of the Facial Identification Catalog of 1971 (which includes image KA3-9). They had rejected a previous FOIA request, more broadly defined. Will post any further responses from the FBI.

Somewhat to my surprise, I just received (by snail mail) a response to a FOIA request that I had submitted on 09.18.2020, regarding the "sled test" film. Instead of the standard rejection letter (of which I now have quite a collection), the FBI sent me the five pages below. I believe that the photos are familiar from n467us.com and from Ralph Himmelsbach's book, but I'm not sure that the two cover pages have been released before. The redacted name is presumably Capt. Thomas Spangler. I don't know what to make of the phrase "These will not be used". The five photos have only two variants. I have the impression that the tail number N467US has been drawn by hand on one image, and airbrushed out on another. 720110 164-81-1A p1.pdf 720110 164-81-1A p2.pdf 720110 164-81-1A p3.pdf 720110 164-81-1A p4.pdf 720110 164-81-1A p5.pdf

My second calibration of KA3-9 was too wide in the horizontal axis. Here's a third calibration of KA3-9 based on the assumption that the page from the Facial Identification Catalog was standard US letter size (8.5" x 11" or 216 x 279 mm). If so, the individual photographs were about 39 mm wide by 49 mm high. The "Bing" sketch is shown for comparison, with eyeline and chinline matched.

I agree. I recalibrated the image against a full page from the catalog, which I found on worthpoint.com.

Here's a comparison of the reconstructed KA3-9 with the FBI sketch.

Many thanks. Here's an attempt to reconstruct KA3-9 with perspective correction. Hard to see how this identification formed a basis for the FBI sketch.

I have just received a reply to my FOIA request, submitted on 12.14.2020, for the relevant extracts from the Facial Identification Catalog of 1971. The FBI informed me that "potentially responsive records" have been destroyed. Does anyone on this forum have images of the KA-3-9 and KK-5-1 profiles, as they originally appeared in the catalog?

Many thanks. The FBI stated that "The first search area was calculated using a system of plotting known as "GEOREF" (i.e. Geographical Reference) which has a plotting error of plus or minus one mile. A new plotting system using a computer generated latitude and longitude has a plotting error plus or minus 1/2 mile." However, if the FBI were using the term GEOREF as used today, to refer to the World Geographic Reference System, then their statement does not make sense. GEOREF, as used today, is a system of definitions and has no intrinsic errors. Errors only occur when something is measured. I imagine that the raw data from a radar plot would be expressed as two components: (1) a distance in nautical miles from the transmitter, and (2) a radial in degrees from e.g. true or magnetic north. For example, MALAY is 63.6 nm from SeaTac on the 197 degree radial (true); but an airplane at MALAY might be measured at a slightly different distance and radial, depending on the accuracy of the radar. The measurement error would carry over into any grid reference system that was used (e.g. MGRS or GEOREF), whether the translation was done manually or by computer; but the measurement error would not change. So it doesn't make sense for the FBI to say that a different system, or using a computer, would reduce the error of the measurement.

Thanks, got it now (thanks to andrade1812 on DB Cooper Forum). This site converts latitude and longitude to GEOREF and other grids: https://www.earthpoint.us/convert.aspx. So the four annotations NC, NB, NA and NQ (from north to south) correspond to the GEOREF quadrangles DKNC, DKNB, DKNA and DJNQ.

Has anyone on this forum contacted Captain Spangler, or does anyone know whether he is still alive?

Agreed. Each of those annotations is in the lower left corner of a quadrangle bounded by degrees of latitude and longitude. The notations NC, NO/NB, NA/XA and NQ/NO don't correspond to any map reference in the Operational Navigation Charts or theTactical Pilotage Charts of the Defense Mapping Agency. FBI map NA quadrangle.bmp FBI map NQ quadrangle.bmp

Here's a question for Hominid and other experts on the "FBI map". Does anyone know the significance of the handwritten letters “NC” (abeam Seattle), “NO” or “NB” (abeam Pigeon Springs, Washington), “NA” or “XA” (abeam Salem, Oregon), and “NQ” or “NO” (abeam Eugene, Oregon)?

Thanks for this clarification. Is this information from an FBI document, or from a JC Penney's catalog?

This post is over 12 years old but ... does anyone know whether Ckret ever uploaded the film?

Can anyone re-post these pictures? They don't seem to be on the site anymore.

Can anyone re-post these pictures? They don't seem to be on the site anymore.

Is Mr Walker still available to talk to researchers?