4waynut

So far 11 teams have confirmed for the meet, including Perris Snatch Force and the British Womens Team Airkix in addition to GT, Fury, Storm, Helion, Equinox, Aerofiles, Momentum, Katalyst, and Gravity...sounds like a great turn-out.

I just found out that there is free tunnel time for participants. I will ask Quade to post it on the SSL site so Steve/Dom/Bill don't hog it all.

Perris Helion and Elsinore Momentum just confirmed...

Fine, you guys post here but don't write back to my e-mails asking for a head count? (except Steve who did write back and Mel who got spoken for by Erin). Elsinore GT, Perris Storm, Elsinore Aeorfiles, Elsinore Gravity so far. Anyone know about... Elsinore Alloy (is there a 4th yet?), Perris Quest, Perris Rebels, Element Perris, Perris Fury, Perris Helion, Arizona Divewerkz, Elsinore Equinox, Elsinore OS, and Perris Katalyst??

I never post but while I am here smackin' with Dominic: AAA Gold: Arizona Blade with an average of 16.83 Silver: Perris Schoolboys with an average of 16.67 Bronze: Elsinore GT with an average of 14.33 AA: Gold: Perris Pending with an average of 8.83 Silver: Elsinore Equinox with an average of 8.17 Bronze: Elsinore Fuse with an average of 6.17 These should be up on NSL and SSL sites by tomorrow, along with a write-up of the meet. It was awesome, big thanks to the staff at Skydive Elsinore.

Ummm...Dominic...yes Eliana is awesome but you were you not aware that you were on the plane all day with Thomas Hughes who is the penultimate tunnel body pilot? Ever seen him carve around people standing in the tunnel while on his head and wearing a bootie suit? He competed at the World Meet last year for the Brits and on Saturday he, Mark Kirkby, Natasha Montgomery and Beat Steffen won their second SSL gold medal with an average of 16.83.

That was quite a rant about my ranting. We do not all communicate in the same way and yes, I am very passionate about helping weekend fun-jumpers like myself learn more, and exposing us west-coast jumpers to the kind of talent you in Florida have at your disposal and perhaps might even take for granted. It has taken a lot of work and dedication, and dropzone.com has actually yielded some interest in events and tunnel trips. It was fairly thankless even before reading your post Just as you are entitled to disagree with and dislike my posts, I am entitled to communicate my ideas in an environment of respect as is shown everyone else without being singled out. Based on the PM's I have received, not everyone agrees with you either. Albatross: I love you man! Quade?

It's NOT too late. Just set up a coach, what's so involved about that? E-mail or contact the tunnel folks or see if David is available. You are spending big bucks for the tunnel time, dont' waste it---mark my words, as soon as you get there you will see that your dropzone.com pals are looking out for you. Good luck, write back and tell us how it went!

Quade, Most folks are flying in Friday after work and departing Sunday after the camp, which will finish by 5:00 p.m. We are coordinating airport transport (sharing cabs) and hotels (sharing rooms). The camp itself will be all day Saturday (7:30 - 5:00) and all day Sunday, with an opportunity for some night (extra) time as well with the coaches. Most camps are organized by coaches to make money. This camp is organized by COACH-EES, to suck less. Check us out!

It's intended to be a weekend camp. We have virtually both Saturday and Sunday booked all day. We are coming in from the west coast and have to work (ya know, jobs and stuff), so we are flying out late Friday night and returning Sunday evening or early Monday morning. We are inviting folks to sign up for the time they want (one hour, two hours, etc.) over the weekend and we will fold it into our schedule to ensure no one's pec's poop out too early. Come on! Albatross is coming and Quade is supportive, too. All of our dropzone.com "body flight" soap-boxers will be there!

That's $100/day per person.... I've had less expensive coaching in the tunnel and found it was a waste of money. These guys have a proven curriculum and accolades beyond mention. More importantly, their energy is patient, professional, and positive. Are you available to join us??

You are not that far away from Perris and Elsinore. Get off the computer and start watching landings and listening to stories. If you are to find opportunity and insight, that is where you will find it. However, I like the advice you were given about money: make lots of it, this is a spendy sport.

We want to suck less!! We are a bunch of left coast folks who have booked time at the SkyVenture Wind Tunnel the weekend of January 25th and we have slots/space for a few others to join us. We have arranged for coaching by David Van Greuningen and Shannon Pilcher (possibly more coaches if our group grows) with a ratio of 3 campers per coach. First-class coaching at a reasonable (ok everything is relative) price: Cost: $10/minute for tunnel time plus $100/day for coaching. Let us know if you are interested in joining us! Don't mock my zeaous posts on body flight without giving it a try... [email protected]

Can you tell I am BLONDE and worked all day??? David Van Greuningen's e-mail address is: [email protected] Gotta lay off the Diet Coke and get some rest.

There are lots of tunnel curricula out there. I agree with Albatross (as I usually do) that going to the tunnel without a coach is not a good idea. My pick: David Van Greuningen [email protected] He is so utterly competent at coaching and is a heck of a nice guy. Split his daily rate among your group and he will put your through the paces. The wonderful folks at Skyventure can also direct you to a coach, but Albatross and I are products of his coaching and so is the above-mentioned Grizz (Geoff Grizzard). Good luck!

Haylee, When you are trying to increase your fall rate, avoid bringing your arms back and arching your body like a banana. You might fall faster for a moment, but you will only float as soon as you try to move or take grips. Instead, be sure to arch from your hips. Get rid of the chest weights, they tend to make you drop your chest and head which is a lot of surface area and makes you floatier and with less control. Get a weight belt, it helps you arch from your hips. Sit up. Flying with your head down increases surface area and makes you floatier. The body position which will allow you the most flexibile fall rate is like when you lie on your stomach and prop your head up on your hands to watch TV with your legs up. That arch from the hip is the most important. To come down to a formation when you are floating, pull arms and legs tight to your torso, then snap them back to neutral when you get to the formation. Check out Quade's web site, www.futurecam.com and look for the "Out of the Box" body flight skills camp photos. Keep your eye on Shannon Pilcher and David Van Greuningen's body positions in those still photos. Also, go to the tunnel or engage a coach experienced in body flight instruction to work with you using debriefable on-level video. The kind Quade does

I think Albatross might define "right" as completely stable (cannot be taken out by someone flying below or above), arms in a usable position in front of the body (no contorting required to take grips), head up to see the skydive, arch from the hip rather than the belly in order to engage the legs....crisp movements, sharp turns, complete stops on a dime.....100-foot vertical adjustments without de-arching (using arm and leg surfaces only).... WHY OH WHY AREN'T ALL NEW SKYDIVERS LEARNING THESE BODY FLIGHT SKILLS???? GO TO THE TUNNEL BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE AND YOU LEARN BAD HABITS...JUST DO IT!!! DON'T LISTEN TO THE RESIDENT EXPERTS AT YOUR DZ WHO DON'T KNOW ABOUT BODY FLIGHT, RUN PAST THEM ON YOUR WAY TO BOOK A FLIGHT TO ORLANDO TO ATTEND A TUNNEL CAMP. YOU WILL OUT-FLY MOST EXPERTS AT YOUR DZ IN 100 JUMPS IF YOU LEARN CORRECTLY, DO IT MAN! I feel better now.

Chris, Van Greuningen and I have trained you well.... Raw truth #1 is that we cannot skydive well until we learn to fly our bodies. Raw truth #2 is that most of us don't know what we don't know until we go through the pain and agony of Day #1 of a tunnel camp with an experienced tunnel coach. Raw truth #3 is it costs a lot of money to get good, but it's truly worth it. Does anyone who has taken my advice about getting RW coaching have any money left to buy food??? Nope. P.

Dan, Aside from progressing in your ratings, it sounds like you also want to learn how to fly your body and start having some fun getting on some skydives with other people. Skydive U is a good idea, but I recommend saving those pennies and heading for the SkyVenture wind tunnel in Orlando. Check out the NSL tunnel camps with Shannon Pilcher, or e-mail David Van Greuningen ([email protected]) and ask about getting tunnel coaching. The tunnelcamp.com camps are also awesome but spendy. The tunnel coaches can teach you CORRECT body flight and have you flying with confidence in a very short amount of time so that you can really enjoy your skydives. It's too darn cold in MA to skydive right now anyway. Why not start summer off stable, solid, and ready to turn points?? Gen 1:8

I will say that at MCO (Orlando) and LAX no one pays much attention, but at JFK, both WDC airports, and good ol' Ontario, CA the alarm goes off and the security people call over a special guy in rubber gloves who looks at the scars from my surgery. I will also say that nobody questions my CYPRES after observing the scars on my leg.

Fun RW loads of all sizes organized by David Van Greuningen and Shannon Pilcher at Perris Valley Skydiving December 7th & 8th. $30/day per person plus shared video expense for each jump. Debriefs focused on personal body flight. Details: contact [email protected] or [email protected]

why, that sounded an awful lot like a PLUG for Skydive U! Imagine that! Unluckily for the rest of the world I went to Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf tonight and forgot to order decaf. I loved SDU and went though it. I did find it pricey though and felt my coaches were pushing me to spend more money and felt constrained by the strict curriculum. I feel that there are other ways to pursue good up to date RW skills applicable to all disciplines. --Get out to the SkyVenture wind tunnel in Orlando FL. Do it! --If a trip to the tunnel too spendy at the moment, at least visit the SkyVenture website and contact the NSL coaches for advice. Why ask us weekenders in the usergroups when you can get answers from folks who have won Open-Class 4-way medals and are experienced at teaching and coaching all types of RW? --Get hold of the Open-Class 4-way video from a recent competition such as the US Nationals and watch those skydives in slow motion. Pay attention specifically to the use of arms and legs, the arch, the movement. Visualize yourself doing it that way. Then watch yourself honestly in slow motion and figure out what techniques you might apply to improve your own flying. --Make something happen at your DZ. I started convincing other weekenders to pitch in for shared coach days and mini-camps at my drop zone from medaled Open-Class 4-way competitors. Here are some real quotes people have actually said to me when I invite them to participate in a day of coaching from a world-class RW coach with a 20+ 4-way average, at a cost of $30 plus shared video: --"I do mostly big-way RW so I don't need the kind of body flight skills taught by these coaches" (how about vertical adjustments, forward movement, and sharp stops?) --"I am already a good flyer, I only need a coach if I get on a 4-way team" (anyone who thinks they are a good flyer and has not yet been to the wind tunnel is kidding himself...ask anyone who has been there. The humility on day 1 of every tunnel camp is palpable). --The "mantis" is not good for big-way flying (check out the 300-way video or the JFTC video and you might see some mantis flyers---they will likely be the ones flying stable, in their slot, and on level). --You can't learn the "mantis" or good body flight skills until you master the "box-man" (position nomenclature is irrelevant, stable body flight is its own definition and it should be learned as early as possible---I wish there were another way to describe the latest techniques in good body flight, but the "mantis" name seems to have stuck). --The "mantis" is not a stable body position. (Just try and make an open-class 4-way competitor unstable when he's in a hands-on-the-ball/head-up/legs employed 4-way stance---aint gonna happen!) --"I'm just in this for the fun, I jump with the load organizers and that's good enough for me." (I have no comeback for this and always smile and accept it, but frankly I can't understand someone not wanting to suck less). Hitting the wall now, gotta post this thing and get off this uncomfortable soapbox.

I set the alarms off at airports with my surgical-steel-reinforced tibia. It's been there since Round 2 at Nationals in '98. I opted to leave it in there and avoid another major surgery. The requisite upsizing of my canopy and butt-sliding in the absence of any wind is, I think, a small price to pay for being back in the air and out of the OR.

Lori, As we discussed today at the DZ, (but I'll respond here again 'cause I can do that now) you probably don't need a weight vest to correct your body flight, just some time in the tunnel or even in freefall with the right coach. What a coincidence, we are flying a couple of great ones out to Perris next weekend (Shannon Pilcher and David van Greuningen). I believe you should still wear lead around the waist based on the body flight techniques my coaches are teaching to me. I suggest that you and the folks on this site seek answers from the body flight gurus at the tunnel. I know you are filming the body flight camp at Perris next weekend, but be sure to lurk the debriefs and seminars if you can swing it, I think you will have your questions answered. P.

Guys, I'm being taught how to navigate this site, (Quade you are an inspiration). I've only made a few posts. Looking at the jump numbers and comments in this thread, I'll just offer this: for good body flight advice please oh please e-mail someone with some real body flight instruction experience, a few thousand jumps, and maybe some 4-way medals (look on the Skyventure site for coaches and fire off some e-mails). Who was ordering a weight vest? Look into a weight BELT, it pulls you down where you need it. OK. Let's see if I can hit the right button to send this off...