ChrisD

Thanks Ron, I appreciate your well thought out response, and as some one else has reminded me, not being "snarky" when I say that. I agree with ya about the actual risk. But when has our government ever acted upon the actual risk as compared with perception. It seems all it would take is one incident to splash egg on some politicians face. So I guess in many respects once a law / regulation is in place it is very difficult to remove because of the perceived potential for the I told ya so or the I'm not going to be the one on the hot seat by reducing regulations. I don't think the USPA is immune from that way of thinking? Anyways WE are the USPA, and I can start writing,... What did Clint Vincent have to say about this at the last BOD? Does anyone know? Can our own Dropzone.com moderator shed some light on this, if such a thing is appropriate? I don't think it's appropriate for Mr. Noonan to share his personal views on the subject (I think this puts any BOD in a really shitty position, and there is that confidentiality thing?) but can someone remind me which meeting minutes have more discussion on this topic than the last meeting ? And perhaps there is some kind of pro / con paper that Mr. Noonan can share? Or point to?? I don't know, I'm asking? Or anyone? I mean the political climate over there seems to still be harping on the: Poor image, poor first jump retention, and FAA inertia, whatever that means. And of course I still don't fully understand this: [I] "skydiving’s safety culture has a long way to go..." [/I] In some past threads and posts I was being a little snarkey about how Tandem places are changing things, and something about how some want it to be a business so get used to the 2nd class medical being the future. (Or whatever.) I believe the USPA comment is this: "Changing DZ business model—an increasing number of DZs only accommodate tandem jumps; this may serve to reduce the overall retention rate among all first-jump customers..." [/I] I get upset over this one, not sure why, but we all have seen what happens when I get rolling Perhaps there is some sort of connection, that I don't fully understand between the medical and this dz thing. And because I Don't fully understand it I'm reacting first and thinking later. Anyways I don't begrudge anyone trying to make a living at skydiving. But this last from the USPA has me concerned, and perhaps this point belongs in another post? Or perhaps the USPA, "us" can enforce the two minute video on the joys of jumping at a tandem only place? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Here is the attitude from one Avaition MD's perspective: DR. from Canada It's just an interesting read,... Don't mean to be a ball buster but a Senior medical examiner is an FAA designation, for Americans. I am not clouding anything by introducing viewpoints from other countries. And again it is just an interesting read... RON: "Ok, I'll try this again: The FAA does not give a damn about TI's having a medical - THEY DONT CARE. Only the USPA cares. If the USPA dropped it, the FAA would not even notice. The only group making the TI/DUI correlation is the USPA." I get your point, I got it the first time

Here is the attitude from one Avaition MD's perspective: DR. from Canada C It's just an interesting read,... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

This: dyson sucks C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Probably deserved that too,.... C I started this whole thread because of this: From: Air Facts I just want to do what I could to raise awareness, if it is possible? So that skydiving can slide by the flack, so to speak. And as far as defending my self about my jump numbers, I am not proud of my jump numbers as compared with the number of years I have been jumping. I have had large gaps and I'm personally embarrassed every time someone asks how many jumps I have and then expects some level of performance. Cgrips I spend more than half of my time getting current again and again. But for what it's worth I have more than one jump. I'm trying to be more sociable and not appearing as an expert. Please bear with me as I try to learn some new skills any help will be most appreciated. Some may enjoy reading this, just tossin this out for your consideration: medical history 1942 But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Thanks. If your referencing Perris I hear they had a really bad start. And my most profound condolences, what a shitty way to start the new year. If your talking about madness, my girlfriend won't let me go, so have fun! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I'm sorry Ron, I was making an off the cuff remark about how the Medical requirement came about with the inception of the CAB in the first place. I wasn't referring so much to you as that as trying to point out the futility of some of the arguments with a governmental agency like the FAA. What I have noticed is that arguing with them is a very difficult endeavor and frequently the public perception is what rules the day. Of course I am not an expert here, these are some of my personal thoughts. I guess I'm still stuck with my and everyone's concerns when DUI, Currency, Medical and Tandem all come up in the same sentence. I was just venting. I do stand ready to assist anyone with letters, or lobbying if ever anyone wants to attend a public meeting or anything we can think of to better skydiving for everyone. If that makes any sense. I wasn't referencing the LSA category. I was also poking a little fun at Kallend when he points out the AME might be in fact the only beneficiary. This upsets me cause of the frustration the sad reality of this whole issue. Millions spent on a requirement that when we actually try to measure it's effectiveness, it is the least important factor in Aviation safety, ironic hu? Sorry to vent my frustration upon you guys here.... C And thanks for your patience and understanding. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Thank you for taking the time to fully explain your position and how you operate. I will do the best I can in the future. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Thanks man! I would say that you and Jim (airtwardo) have just pushed the Quality versus quantity example into the stratosphere. I feel like I have just been visited by three spirits. I hope I can live up to your fine example. C Thanks again! But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Thanks Jim,..!!!! I am going to try to learn to be better able to not sound like a jerk. And yes I want to preserve some anonymity for a number of reasons. The complexities are in fact incredible. I am so frustrated by the economics of skydiving and I literally go insane comparing the many friends I have trying to make a living in an environment where regulations are increasing, as well as fuel prices increasing, etc,. The club environment as compared with making a living. Thank you for your well thought out reply and thank you even more for taking the time to do so!!! C I'll try to do the best I can with tone and such, please send me a kind word, and I am being sincere!!! But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I agree, what Robert said is how I truly feel about the whole topic. I'm just a little frustrated with this whole subject and the FAA is bigger than me.... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

ya, I probably deserved that, but no I am serious C If you want to help me then I am all ears, seriously. But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Thank you for taking the time to help me out. I'll do the best I can with my tone and this sounding experty thing, I can learn too and if you continue to help me I will listen. C thanks But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Dude, I'm getting the message, I can be pretty thick sometimes. If you want to help me learn how to not sound so experty, at this point, I'm all ears. And will welcome the help?? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I rest my case. You are an admitted TROLL. I may be some kind of psycho son of a bitch, but I am trying to get some of you to think. Not everyone. You can't please everyone. But I can force an issue so that the actual process is visible to any or for anyone that cares too look. This is different than being a Troll. I wish no one here any ill will or am I intentionally attempting to flame or incite anyone. I have set the stage, provided examples, and let some of you do the rest. Some of you are actually getting "IT." If you care to go thru some of my past posts, you will see that; one of my points, that the next generation of skydiving safety is going to be in changing how we think. Never said it was going to be easy.... C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I found this link from "P"s book: parachute Manual pg. 272, 273 See comment A at 7.26 C maybe it can help , I don't know, just putting it out there cause no one else has yet,... But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

No, but I would hope that some will be able to see my concern about some of the processes people use when they and about how, communication in this modern age. Many people here are "stuck." If you can view what I am trying to say rather objectively and leave out the personal attacks some might actually learn a better and more aware way of communicating. I appreciate your attempts to point out how style and tone can affect the content of a message. I would hope that some can start to see that information content and what is and what isn't listened too is something that is a quality of the person delivering the message. In other words if people believe that a person is credible and or popular, what they have to say is more believable, even when the more popular persons information is bullshit. If you take the time to go view my past posts I have been very careful to only quote the SIM, IRM, and other purportedly experienced people that have served skydiving for many decades. Everything I have said here, except for some personal and sarcastic banter has come from prior searches! And I have done this to raise awareness. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I agree with ya. This thread / post started off with one person who took a bold step to bring to everyone's attention something that looks fishy. I support anyone who supports skydiving.

Mods... Is there a way we can tag this guy so new people will not listen to his dangerous 'advice'? If you want to take the time to comment on any supposed dangerous advice you have the means and ample opportunity to do so. I doubt that you will be able to support your last comment. Your attempts to enforce your personal views by stifling and controlling free speech have not gone unnoticed. As I view your constant attacks upon the USPA seems to be your major theme it is no wonder that when someone comes along and asks you to support your criticisms with some sort of constructive activism it is no wonder you resort to a personal attack to enforce your opinions. We have the medical requirement for a reason. Because it was and is needed. Until something better comes along and those individuals with a better idea, one that can be implemented, you have to live with the fact that the USPA doesn't see the world as you do. And as I see it the USPA is a mouthpiece for the manufacturers because just as in this example of the medical requirement, they have a vested interest in the future of skydiving, quite frankly I have a real concern that you are not interested in the future of skydiving? C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Correct, since the LSA category there has been ZERO accidents related to a medical issue. You might want to take the time to point out that medical related incidents across all categories over a long period of time are low, comparatively. Not having a medical exam is in fact correlated with aviation incidents and has been since the 20s'. That's why we have it. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I have faith that our newbie population are a highly motivated bunch of intelligent individuals that can in fact think for themselves. They enjoy the free flow of information. The "message" is what is important , and they are capable of deciding for themselves. On the other hand many wish to support their perceived status, their ego, at all costs, the messenger at the expense of free speech is what is most important. Anyone here can clearly see we aren't talking about any particular subject other than stifling a voice. Any voice that speaks out for free speech that is. The incident reports over the last 50 years support the overwhelming conclusion that the more experienced jumpers are the ones that need protection, it seems the messengers are the ones we have to worry about. Again If you want to back up thru recent history here and challenge the many times I have cut and pasted from the SIM or IRM, and some of the individuals you have quoted in the past feel free to correct anything I have said, but it's not about the content is it? And or your message isn't directed at the tens of thousands of shitty posts that hundreds have enjoyed reading and have taken the time to help and improve upon what others have said. You take your "select" group of people, who most of the time can't be bothered to personally answer newbie type questions cause your all too busy spending time coming back with off the wall one lines and inside jokes and spend some time looking in the mirror and then you can see for yourself where your motivations lie. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I sent them an email requesting access at the student rate of 25 bucks, that AIAA group that is. It looks like anyone who is a "student" can join. I wonder if some of our first jump students qualify? Many times if there is enough interest those organizations will accept their outside volunteer organizations requests for free, all it takes is just a little effort and a promise that you don't post it on the internet. Sharing is generally ok but they try to make their money by selling to those that can afford it like UPT and other places with deep pockets. The math is something that when I read much of this I am glad I decided long ago that that was too much work. But it does have it's place in understanding much about how things work. I found it fascinating That Lingard is working on supersonic canopies for what is left of NASA. Thanks for your request! C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

I have attached a sample of just one example of what I used to do. If that helps. Don't take offense, it isn't directed at anyone here and it was a starting point for communications research.... Why? Because anything new is painful and frequently misunderstood. But in the long run everyone, including me learns something. I mean , otherwise what's the point? Everyone keeps going round and round in the same rut, we all are learning something at this point? C (I know this is on dating, but it applies to any online endeavor.) But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

All you do dude is to get yo yurself banned. I am sorry you feel you have to do whatever it is your doing, but I don't have to do or prove anything to you.

While I'm on a roll, if anyone is near Ohio, you might like the following reference for future use: Dave Gold I realize you didn't ask for this so I hope I don't appear too "whatever" but I just wanted to put this out there before I forget. C But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."