Free Fly coaching

[freeflir29 0]

What works? What doesn't? I've had a couple opportunities lately to coach people on sit dives. I usually try to explain as best I can the proper position on the ground and then observe them in the air. What techniques have you "experts" out there found to work the best. I hate to waste an entire dive observing someone flopping and spinning. Is there a good linked exit that works to help them get stable? Should I just get them a 100Lb helmet and go straight into doing HD?
"I only have 133 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[Snowflake 0]

I'm not really qualified to answer but I love putting my foot in my mouth ....it tastes so good. I would say if they are still falling on their back(like me) then give them advice on getting stable and let them go solo so they can get their balance in the sit(I still find it distracting to try and pay attention to somebody flying by me and staying stable....this could just be me). Once their in a stable sit you can go out and see if their backsliding etc....give them advice on that and check to see how it goes then get them to solo working on transitions, when they can transition their ready for real instruction because at that point they aren't spending all their time concentrating on staying stable and can devote some greymatter to flying and not pushing down with their legs. Thats my basic plan my next 10-20 jumps are going to be sit solos work on stability and transitions then start doing coach and 2 way jumps.
I'm really interested to see what ya'll think since I'm new to FFing but it seems like a good plan.
JG
JG

[freeflir29 0]

I have plenty of Solo FF dives in my log book. It's just something you have to do. If you are just flailing and spinning having someone with you isn't much good. Once you get stable ....then get some coaching. Also....don't be afraid to ask for advice on the ground. I have learned volumes just by listening to people that know what they are doing.
"I only have 133 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[Opie 0]

I like to take them out with our knees locked together. Keeps us face to face and lets them have hands and arms free for flying right out the door. I think the eye contact in this exit lets you communicate so much more than in a train and get them to relax and see how you are flying as well.
"waste an entire dive observing someone flopping and spinning" dude these are some of the most fun dives. Trying to stay in someones face as they go from backsliding at 165mph to corking up on their back at 125mph and so forth is some challenging shit, if you are getting bored with this try to keep the gap between you and them down to one or two foot AT ALL TIMES and see if you don't learn something yourself, I don't think you'll consider it a wasted dive.
Opie
If your not on the edge, you can't enjoy the view!

[freeflir29 0]

Oh No...it's always a challenge but I'm looking at what they are getting out of it....not me..."I only have 133 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[skymama 35]

I was taught by using a train exit and got it on my second try.
Andrea
The brave may not live forever, but the timid may not live at all.

[BikerBabe 0]

You said to get stable then get coaching, but I disagree. I honestly didn't know HOW to get stable without getting a couple of coach dives to start out with. Seriously, I thought I was doing it right, then when I saw myself on video for the first time, I was like "Sheesh, I'm a goober". I was on my back the whole time.
So I took a weekend, went to AZ, and paid for real coaching...and in 7 jumps I was able to do a stable sit, 360's, cartwheels, and even a stable stand. Without that initial coaching push, I'd still be flopping around on my back...
What worked for me was the coach telling me to slow down, don't try to shove yourself into a sit on the very first try. Start on your back and slowly push your legs down into the sit position. yeah, that took me a couple of jumps to master, but it was worth it having someone up there with me who could tell me that my right leg was causing me to cork every single time. Actually, the best part was when I finally got it, being able to actually see the other person and know I was doing it right.
sorry...that was a long post!

[freeflir29 0]

"sorry...that was a long post"
No not at all....That's what I'm trying to figure out. I have had a couple experiences now of trying to coach someone into a sit for the first time. I haven't been terribly successful so far. I also haven't had follow up dives with them either so I don't really know if I helped them or not. I hope I did. I'm trying to figure out what will work so I can get them a successful FIRST dive instead of just letting them flail the first time and then moving from there.
"I only have 133 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[nws01 0]

Clay,
I may be a bad sit flier but you are a post whore!! haha
My next jumps are all going to be sit flys until I am stable. Then coached dives. Next time I am in Atlanta look out.
Nathan

[freeflir29 0]

"My next jumps are all going to be sit flys until I am stable. Then coached dives. Next time I am in Atlanta look out."
I have more solo Free Fly jumps than any other type. I did a bunch last year and just recently have I gotten "Good Enough" to start really flying with the big boys. So, keep your chin up and don't be shy about getting some coaching. Did all the stuff I was telling you help? I hope so....I want to make the whole world better free flyers!!!
"I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[LawnDart21 0]

My .02 cents: Locked leg exits are a good way to keep eye contact with the person you are with to give hand signals, and is good practice for sitting up straight, but most newbies tend to lean back during a lock leg sit, which can cause a spin, and then as soon as you let go.........it's like skipping a rock across a pond.....bye bye! Lock leg exits also don't allow the student to feel the wind on the bottom of their feet, it doesn't help to learn leg posture. I did a couple of sit fly coached jumps with Max Cohn from Generation Freefly, and we left in a sit train, with me in front and he in back. That exit worked as he was able to slow his fall rate enoughto actually be 45 degrees above and behind me, I was essentially able to hang from his feet and really get a feel for my stability. Once stable, he let go and orbitted around in front of me. I use that same technique now when I coach and it works great. You start out above them when your letting go, so if they cork, your already there. You just need to be able to orbit around them in a sit for it to work well. Hope that helps.
"I live to EFS"
Tom

[BikerBabe 0]

LOL...another long post coming!
Agree on the locked leg exits. I didn't really "get" the exit until I did it on my own, and it came off just right. I think in the back of my mind I was relaxing and thinking I didn't have to work as hard since my legs were locked with the coach's.
As for progression, the first 2 dives were just trying to get stable in a sit. Then I went out and got rip-roaring drunk, woke up with a hangover, and the first jump of the morning, I was in a stable sit, did 360's, and even a stand! Something about beer and clarity of the mind, I guess... ;)
But seriously, one thing the coach did to help with 360's was he carved around me and I just made sure to keep eye contact with him...voila! 360's!
I really think the key, no matter how fast or slow the student is progressing, is for the coach to emphasize taking it slow and steady. On those first couple of jumps, it was taking me around 5 seconds to go from flying on my back to a sit, because I was concentrating so hard on pushing my legs down slowly, cleanly, and evenly. But it really worked. It was the exact same going from the sit to the stand...push those legs down nice and slow.
I'm no expert, I'm still practicing all the elements in a sit (still can't get those darned back flips!), but I had a great coaching experience.
Another thing that helped (and this will definitely not apply to the majority of people you'll coach) is that I had 300 belly jumps before I started this. Now, I know jump numbers alone isn't enough to judge someone's ability, but sheer jump numbers really does help with your air sense, and helps you know how your body moves in freefall. The turns in the sit came really natural to me, because I instinctively knew what different inputs would do. The more time you have in the air, the easier it is to learn new things.
I'm sort of in the opposite boat...just learning freeflying, but interested in coaching RW. One thing I plan on telling anyone I coach is to go learn the "other" discipline. The more you know about flying, the better you'll be at whatever you choose to do. Seriously, when I watch Airspeed's vertical transitions, I see where knowing how to freefly can only help. So I decided to try to become a more "all-around" type of skydiver.

[freeflir29 0]

"I had 300 belly jumps before I started this"
Actually the last two people I have worked with had about 100 and 300 jumps. A guy with over 3,000 is learning to sit fly right now at the DZ. Then you have Doug Glover who has around 10,000 I think and won't admit that he has even tried Free Flying...LOL. Certainly the more jumps the better the student just due to confidence levels.
"I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay