Dumpster 0 #1 January 13, 2009 If You Were to buy a camcorder TODAY..... To be used to video flying - What would you get? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #2 January 13, 2009 HC5. Beats everything else that´s currently available, for skydiving. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #3 January 13, 2009 I can agree with that. The new MX1 might change that. I am anxious to see it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #4 January 13, 2009 Depends on the use. Tandems? A CX12 (did just buy one yesterday). Freefly? An HC5 if you can find one. If you can wait til May/June, PROBABLY one of two/three cams. TG1 for anything non-professional if you promise to be careful with it, along with a Cookie box for even if you're not entirely careful with it. Hard to fit an adapter ring to it though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #5 January 13, 2009 QuoteTandems? A CX12 (did just buy one yesterday). That totally depends on how you fly (quite a few backflyers at our DZ) and your workflow (I usually have 15 minutes sometimes less to edit and burn a DVD on my pc/laptop, can´t yet do that with AVCHD, one camera flyer here does jump a CX6 but he only uses the composite so for him it doesn´t matter if it´s tape or AVCHD). For more than half of our local tandem camera flyers a CX6-7-11-12 is no good at all, so don´t see why you´d label it the current best choice for tandems. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #6 January 13, 2009 Something to consider is if you´re going to compete. Not all (for me locally, practically NON) competitions can handle non-tape cameras as of yet. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #7 January 13, 2009 QuoteQuoteTandems? A CX12 (did just buy one yesterday). That totally depends on how you fly (quite a few backflyers at our DZ) and your workflow (I usually have 15 minutes sometimes less to edit and burn a DVD on my pc/laptop, can´t yet do that with AVCHD, . then you're using the wrong application. Several of us ingest, edit, and output to DVD in minutes, significantly faster than you can: -Remove tape for edit deck (or sometimes camera from helmet) -Capture (real-time/Seven mins of tape equal seven mins of capture time) -Edit (no auto-location or filing with tape like there can be with MPEG from AVCHD) edit-failed to mention tagging/geotagging, metadata that will soon be available in-camera for consumers, the pro AVCHD systems already offer it. -Burn to DVD -store archive -AVCHD is smaller than DV -AVCHD is direct to DVD compatible for HD -AVCHD camcorders all record SD, and some record 4:3 as well as wide. AVCHD is the new DV. Might as well get familiar with it, cuz at some point, everyone has to. Very shortly, you'll see a tutorial on EXACTLY how to do this quickly, painlessly, and without much input from the editor, where the capture/editing/delivery process is faster than most people can pack (three minute packers not included, void where prohibited, certain restrictions may apply). Rather than toss away the camera/format, maybe look at what application you're using as the problem instead. it's like a tractor-trailer. Matching the weight of the trailer with the horsepower of the truck is fairly important. Critical, actually. Media management is easier with Flash-based systems too. And...tape is dead. Sure, you can still buy the HC9, and can still buy (and will be able to buy) DV tape for a while still. But...there are those that feel speed is much more important, and in an in an intelligent, reasonably new computer, there is simply no way, no how, that a tape-based camera system can beat a flash, Xpress card, or BDPD system. Not even by a close margin. Not even on a laptop. BTW, we're editing a 3 hour project even now, that is easily 90% AVCHD. 300GB worth. That's a lot of AVCHD. Scotty Burns just bought a 600.00 "junker" machine that manages AVCHD very quickly, very easily, and *all* of his footage is AVCHD, a mix of 1920x1080 and 1440x1080. It's all about understanding the format, the workflow, and setting up the system accordingly. Which BTW, is part of I'm teaching at PIA in a couple weeks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #8 January 13, 2009 Don't the CX's have trouble with sit and head-down situations? Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bomb420 1 #9 January 13, 2009 During nationals, we gladly accepted CX7 and CX12s. With HD cameras we did suggest people switch to 4:3 to better fit the judging booth. At the end of the day I asked people with AVCHD cameras for their cards and copied it to a folder on the PC and the archiving was done. I do not know how next years nationals is going to do it, but at least that is what we did this year. For MiniDV cameras we firewired the footage to the PC through Sony Vegas Movie Studio while the judges judged their first run. The composite feed went into the judging booth and got place on DVDs for second and third reviews. (Worlds was slightly different) AVCHD went over the composite to the DVDs and then later was digitally archived the card. FYI, Arizona Arsenal Sara Curtis used an unmodified CX7 in 4:3 mode to win Nationals. She did switch to a PC109E for worlds since it requires a PAL based camera. Edit: What aspect of the judging does not support AVCHD that you have seen in local comps? Edit Dumpster: Unless you are in the South I would wait to see how these new camcorders play out. CX12 works decently with sitflying, TG1 even better, Both work great headdown. See end of this video for VFS footage from the CX7 during nationals. It's highly compressed but at least no flutter.HYPOXIC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocityphoto 0 #10 January 14, 2009 God i wish i could go to pia to meet you and learn a bit more about editing this avchd on my mac! But going just isn't in my sights right now. I'm thinking of getting the newest imovie 09 when it comes out next month. Right now i don't have anything to convert my video at all. A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #11 January 14, 2009 You can edit AVCHD on any Intel-based Apple system...but it's converted. So, instead of using 12GB per hour, figure approx 40GB per hour for Apple systems. it's converted on the fly, and newer systems import reasonably fast (no where near as fast as a PC, because there is no conversion). HERE is just one of many standalone converters, which are a tad faster than Apple's own system, Voltaic is another system, but it's slightly slow. You can also batch convert, which is a good idea if you've got a lot of files (say...you're doing your tandem vids at the end of the day instead of having the student stand by). AVCHD is so easily managed on the PC side of your Mac that my company is officially going to discontinue our AVCHD conversion software as of the end of Feb, now that everyone reads it natively. Some are still faster than others. *if* speed is your main concern (speed doesn't affect quality), then I'd seriously consider running Boot Camp and XP or Vista 32 on the Boot Camp partition. You'll be stunned at the speed difference. Promise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocityphoto 0 #12 January 14, 2009 I actually started to set up xp with bootcamp last week and ran into an issue before i got started .I'll do some more with it this weekend maybe. Whats your opinion on the fc xpress 4? The whole reason i ask this is because i use the same mac os to do all my photo editing printing and burning during the day as i load the video while i'm doing photo stuff. Then i let them view the video unedited before they leave.I edit during the week and mail the video's . A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #13 January 14, 2009 If I wanted quality video? HC1. If I wanted lightweight HD/tape? HC5. If I just wanted light weight and was doing only belly? CX7. But I wouldn't buy now anyway. There are a few new ones coming out in a few months that are worth waiting for, I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocityphoto 0 #14 January 14, 2009 I installed the 1st link you mentioned but what format would i save it as to edit in imovie? A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #15 January 14, 2009 Either AIC or Prores 4:2:2. I don't have the new iMovie installed, but I'm fairly certain it comes with Prorez. AIC is fine for non-critical work. HTH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #16 January 14, 2009 Our official KNVvL comps are now all judged using standalone dvd burners, so if you use a camera without firewire you´ll have to dub using composite thereby losing quality, so it´s very much preferred you jump a miniDV camera, last nationals a CX7 was only accepted as backup camera if it all. For now, locally, it´s best to jump tape. Not sure how this is done in other countries. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #17 January 14, 2009 Might change when I switch to CS4 but right now with CS2 and CS3 AVCHD is no good. The CX105 might work for me but I´ll stick with my HC5 as long as there´s flutter with backflying, wingsuiting. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #18 January 14, 2009 FWIW, Scotty Burns, Justin Shorb, myself, and several others are exclusively using the CX7/12 for wingsuiting with zero flutter. Scotty often flies with two of them at the same time. Could you post your wingsuiting footage from the CX so we can see what it looks like? It may be that 50i has a more eggregious issue that 60i doesn't have. CS4 is slow and klunky with AVCHD too, BTW. They only installed full support about 45 days ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton2 0 #19 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteTandems? A CX12 (did just buy one yesterday). That totally depends on how you fly (quite a few backflyers at our DZ) and your workflow (I usually have 15 minutes sometimes less to edit and burn a DVD on my pc/laptop, can´t yet do that with AVCHD, one camera flyer here does jump a CX6 but he only uses the composite so for him it doesn´t matter if it´s tape or AVCHD). For more than half of our local tandem camera flyers a CX6-7-11-12 is no good at all, so don´t see why you´d label it the current best choice for tandems. How do you edit and burn a DVD in 15minutes if you have to firewire the jump to the laptop first. Is the passenger specific footage only a couple of minutes?Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habid. . . Also in case you jump a sport rig!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #20 January 14, 2009 That was part of his point. There's no firewire on a CX12. Transfer is much faster than real time. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton2 0 #21 January 14, 2009 QuoteThat was part of his point. There's no firewire on a CX12. Transfer is much faster than real time. Dave But it is as issue I have with my HC5Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habid. . . Also in case you jump a sport rig!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #22 January 14, 2009 Dunno if Saskia can do it or not; it takes a very focused effort, but it can be done if you're only talking say...3-4 mins of footage. -plug in camcorder -capture app autolaunches -name the file -capture -PACK -edit -Set to burn -Tell a buddy to hand the DVD to the student when the disc tray pops open (or tell the student this) -Go to next student (assuming it's a busy day) HDV-originated footage will push you close to the edge of that 15 mins, but if you record HDV and output DV widescreen over the firewire port, then you'll be able to edit/render on even a slow machine within your 15 minute window, EASILY once you've go practice (we do nothing but media production in my "day" job, so I'd say we're practiced. We''ve also done up to 62 tandem/fun vids on a busy Saturday, too. I would NOT want to do more than a few using Firewire). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #23 January 14, 2009 Quote How do you edit and burn a DVD in 15minutes if you have to firewire the jump to the laptop first. Is the passenger specific footage only a couple of minutes? I rewind the camera during the short ride back to the DZ, I film about 7 mins (I use the time it takes to dub this to copy the photos to laptop, cut out any pics of sports jumpers and turn the pics 180o as my camera is upside down), editing time is close to zero as I have my templates and am pretty quick, then burn to dvd (use this time to burn photos to cd and film intro for next video), end product with slo-mo's is about 9 mins. So for me 15 mins works, 20 mins is easier on me, if I get 30 or more I can pack for myself if I have to, but usually I don't. Occasionally the dvd hasn't finished burning yet in time, then I ask one of our packers to give it to the tandem student. edit: I film HD but output SD 16:9. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #24 January 14, 2009 Quote Could you post your wingsuiting footage from the CX so we can see what it looks like? It may be that 50i has a more eggregious issue that 60i doesn't have. Ask Jarno about that, I don't have a CX. QuoteCS4 is slow and klunky with AVCHD too, BTW. They only installed full support about 45 days ago. Yeah, which is why for now I'll stick with my HC5s. Changing over to another editing package would cost me time to learn and to create all new templates and I can do 8 tandemvids a day this way comfortably, so don't need to change. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #25 January 14, 2009 I'd still like to see some of your wingsuit footage. I'm not sure why you're so convinced the CX has problems for wingsuits if you've never flown one? Like I said...Scotty, Justin, me are wingsuiting fine with em (we're not the only ones), and Parachutist, me, and and a whopping number of others use them on tandems. Back to the OP, HC5 has been discontinued for over a year, so they're not plentiful. HC9 is still available from many dealers, it's current until stock goes away, but it is OIS. I did buy a CX12 this week, but that's because I needed it this week. If you don't need a camera right now, I'd wait til the new crop starts shipping, as they're smaller, new processing chips, and less costly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
