Linear vs NonLinear ??speed??

[azureriders 0]

I know this subject has been beaten to death in the past but my question is about newer Hardware. I have been hearing a buzz that the newer pc systems are editing as fast as Linear. With the best system that you could put together, money of no concern, the render and burn may be smoking, and with some good software and a few templates the editing time is going to be negligible, but the capture speed is still real time, right? (I am speaking of mini DV here, I understand that solid state may be different). So unless I am missing something, a good non linear system is going to be at best, slightly slower than real time. In comparison to linear, although I still prefer to edit on my slower computer, the speed is at best going to be equal.

So after a long drawn out speech, my real question is: is there a way to capture mini DV footage to a computer at a rate faster than real time?

[PharmerPhil 0]

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is there a way to capture mini DV footage to a computer at a rate faster than real time?

No. With tape, it will always be real time, and the best you can do is have your computer capture footage while you are doing something else. In the old analog audio tape days, high-speed duplication facilities often copied cassettes at faster speeds (with less quality). But as far as I know, no hardware like that exists for digital video tape.

[azureriders 0]

Exactly what I thought. Now, from previous experience of some older machines, I have found it best to leave the thing alone while it is rendering and burning, to avoid hang ups. But with a new system that is not overloaded, I would expect that you could capture while editing, or edit while burning, etc etc. Allowing you to work on two vids at once, and therefore, if the burn time is truely fast, this would be much (at least somewhat) faster than linear?????

[DSE 3]

Batch captures. Batch edits. Batch renders.
Our systems are fast enough that we're editing one video while another is being captured, while yet another is rendering. Very common to have three things happening at once.
It's a beautiful thing.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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Batch captures. Batch edits. Batch renders.
Our systems are fast enough that we're editing one video while another is being captured, while yet another is rendering. Very common to have three things happening at once.
It's a beautiful thing.

I'm very, very jealous

When you say "Our systems" are you referring to your professional setup, or are you talking about the systems you have at your home DZ? What are the specs?

[DSE 3]

Home DZ. We use:
A Sony RM1 Blu-ray authoring system w/2 DVD burners.
Dell 6300 series laptop
Custom-built desktop, dunno what dual proc is in it (Chris?)
we use external USB drives as "server drives" capturing everything to them so all three machines can access whatever, remotely. Chris/Parachutist has it set up for remote editing access as well, so if we want to edit a video from home...we can. or, if one of us needs to fix an edit issue...we can.

With the VASST Ultimate S software and Sony Vegas...you can REALLY hustle ass and create video. We'll have a new product announcement very soon that will speed it up even more, to where it's just minor cuts to fix timing/heads-tails. Imagine a one-button process to ingest and edit, and one more button to burn to a menu-driven, personalized DVD...
Tapeless workflows SERIOUSLY benefit from this system. Tape workflows benefit, but not as much because tape is a real-time ingest no matter what.

[bdazel 0]

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We'll have a new product announcement very soon that will speed it up even more, to where it's just minor cuts to fix timing/heads-tails. Imagine a one-button process to ingest and edit, and one more button to burn to a menu-driven, personalized DVD...

What was the announcement?

[DSE 3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoL54bbbJfk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHu6iqUm4DE

We released a DVD that contains a 2 minute editing workflow (can be faster, once you get a little practice).

[bdazel 0]

Ahh. Thank you. I actually have a copy of "Tandem Videos Made Easy" on the way. I'm hoping for good things!

I'm currently working with my DZO to begin the process of moving from LE to NLE. But I want to realistically manage my expectations. I need to pull the trigger soon (probably before I have a chance to watch the VASST video) so hopefully someone can answer a couple questions for me...

My current LE workflow:

1. Enter hanger, drop gear, cue tape, plug in. (1 minute)
2. Create video in real time, start DVD finalizing, Burn still pics to CD while editing. (6-7 minutes)
3. Finalize DVD, re-cue tape, pack my velo, prep next student (ground interview, etc.), hand finalized DVD and CD to prior student. (7-8 minutes)
4. Get on airplane, land, repeat.

So the whole process takes about 15-16 minutes (minus jump time) if everything goes smooth.

I like what I've read and heard about efficient NLE workflows. With NLE I hope to be able to accomplish the same in 15 minutes or less, but I would like to record every jump in AVCHD and deliver an SD DVD. (Is this feasible with a fast enough processor?) I hope to be able to spend a set amount of time at the editing station (hopefully 2 minutes!), and not have to come back to the editing station until the DVD is completely ready.

I downloaded a trial version of Sony Vegas Platinum 9 - and it seems like a very clunky process that takes much longer that 2 minutes, even with a template: add footage, edit, render, send to DVD architect, start the DVD burning. I hope to be able to accomplish all of this with some kind of automation or batch processing. I know there are several tools to help speed up the workflow: Workspace Pro, Ultimate S Pro, Production Assistant... probably many more.

I know Ultimate S won't work with Vegas Platinum 9, but can the 2-minute workflow presented in the VASST DVD be accomplished with Vegas Platinum and Workspace Pro, and/or Production Assistant?

$$ is a factor. I'll push for a quad-core (2.5+ ghz) and at least 4gb RAM. But I'll have a much better time convincing the DZO to purchase Vegas Platinum rather than Vegas Pro due to the large price difference. I see that Vegas Pro supports "scripting" and "custom templates", whereas Platinum does not. Are these features necessary to achieve the 2-minute goal?

I haven't looked much at other software options, but if there is a cheaper option than Vegas Pro, I'll certainly consider it. Speed and efficiency are paramount. Adobe's $1700 suite is clearly too expensive. Final Cut Pro is out, because Macs are also too spendy.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[DSE 3]

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But I'll have a much better time convincing the DZO to purchase Vegas Platinum rather than Vegas Pro due to the large price difference. I see that Vegas Pro supports "scripting" and "custom templates", whereas Platinum does not. Are these features necessary to achieve the 2-minute goal?

Unfortunately, yes. Scripting is what allows Vegas with PA to make the auto-edits.
Chris/Parachutist can tell you more, he's the host of the project and wrote the macros that make the one-button work fastest.

[bwilling 0]

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we use external USB drives as "server drives" capturing everything to them so all three machines can access whatever, remotely.

For those wanting to setup similar architectures for themselves, you'll get a huge performance boost by going external serial ATA (eSATA) as opposed to USB.

It's supported natively on a lot of the newer motherboards, and can be added to almost any desktop system pretty inexpensively. It's a little pricier than the USB stuff, but I've got both here at work, and the performance of the eSATA drives is considerably better.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[DSE 3]

yes, they do. No doubt.
But...for compatibility purposes, we use USB. This may change this year, as we're changing how the editing program is managed. Not everyone has an eSATA card on their computer at home...but many of the ex drives today offer eSATA along with USB2

[dragon2 0]

True, and they're starting to become very affordable. External harddrive cases with eSata/USB2 can be had for the same price as a USB2 case only, I bought a EUR 30 case that came with a eSata conversion cable+slot for my pc too, plus all the cables, so real cheap

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[bdazel 0]

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Scripting is what allows Vegas with PA to make the auto-edits.

I can't find a mention of "Production Assistant" anywhere at sonycreativesoftware.com or in the Vegas Pro 8 manual. Is that app part of Vegas Pro, or is it an add-on?

[pilotdave 0]

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I can't find a mention of "Production Assistant" anywhere at sonycreativesoftware.com or in the Vegas Pro 8 manual. Is that app part of Vegas Pro, or is it an add-on?

I searched the vasst.com website and couldn't find it. The trial version that came with tandem videos made easy asked for a serial number and won't seem to run without one. And I can't find where to buy it.

Spot! Help!
Dave

[bwilling 0]

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I'll push for a quad-core (2.5+ ghz) and at least 4gb RAM.

Just an FYI, 32 bit versions of Microsoft OS's can't address more than 4gb of memory, so it's fruitless to put more than 4gb in a machine unless you're going to run a 64 bit version of the OS. That in turn opens up a whole new can of worms on the application side, as they have to be compiled to specifically support that 64 bit version of the OS.

And don't ignore disk performance when putting together a box for NLE use. Raid controllers have come down considerably in price over the years, making it reasonably affordable to add a faster and more redundant (Raid 0+1, 10, 5 or 6) disk system to nearly any desktop system. You have to plan for it, because you need a case with room and adequate cooling for all those drives!

I have a DVR system here at work that's running the Nvidia chipset raid controller built on the Asus M3N72-D motherboard, and honestly, for a cheap system, it's not bad!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[bdazel 0]

Right, 64 bit is necessary. Don't most motherboards these days handle several hard drives (i.e. raid controllers)?

[bwilling 0]

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Right, 64 bit is necessary. Don't most motherboards these days handle several hard drives (i.e. raid controllers)?

Many of them do have built in raid controllers these days, but to keep the cost of the board low, most of the RAID functionality is provided in software. While not inherently 'bad', software based RAID systems place a greater load on the machines CPU (those computations gotta happen somewhere), as opposed to a true hardware based solution where most of the RAID computations are done on hardware on the controller itself, not the CPU.

It's unfortunately like everything else in life, where you get what you pay for. I paid $129 for the above mentioned Asus MB that includes built in RAID support, which I have running. A top of the line hardware based RAID controller will run you upwards of $300 for just the controller!

It's a good thing CPU power is cheap these days!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[bdazel 0]

Thanks! So who knows what "Production Assistant" is and where it can be found? Is it part of Vegas Pro?

Also, what does Ultimate S offer in addition to Production Assistant if anything? I watched the VASST tandem editing video, but still have many unanswered questions...

[bdazel 0]

Ok, so Production Assistant is made by VASST. But the VASST website makes no mention of it that I can find. What is the deal? Why is it included and mentioned in the $80 video? Is the video already outdated?

[DSE 3]

Nope, it's not "outdated," it's "pre-dated."
The trial code we included requires a different key due to some changes Sony has made. Sony will not allow us to sell it just yet, the original plan was that the DVD would be out, the trial would run until Sony's deadline, and then you could purchase the plugin. Sony pushed our deadline back by a bit, so we're creating a new trial code that will open the trial up for a longer period.
Very, very sorry for the inconvenience. Sometimes, big companies can really mess up your world.
I'll have a more detailed explanation when I'm able to say more.
BTW, the trial is in the EXTRAS folder on the DVD. But you'll need the new code to run it, as the original code expired on March 1. I'll post the code here as soon as I have it.

[bdazel 0]

Thank you. Is PA different from Ultimate S? And if so, what will the price be when it is available?

[DSE 3]

PA is *very* different than Ultimate S, yes.
regarding cost, that is what the setback is related to. I can't comment further at this time.