sducoach 0 #51 May 31, 2003 Quote Generally, it's the Mfgs. limits. PD reserves list the max loadings based on experience level, most others just give you one max loading. Manuals often list out the FAA max limits, but the lower Mfg. limit over rides that FAA limit. "Generally"? There is nothing general about TSO. In fact its very specific. Experience level has nothing to do with it. Open your manual back up and read standard type and low speed type. Manufacturers are required to mark, Part number, Manufacturer name and address, DOM and/or serial #, FAA TSO-C23c Category A, B, or C limits which are. A 198#@130KTS, B 254#@150KTS, C 254#@175KTS. You are confusing yourself with PD's table of recommended wing loadings which is not a limitation by certification and the only thing it overrides is marketing/liability. Quote Why would this be hard? If you can prove the jumper was outside the spec. there are always other circumstances that can lead to failure. The canopy, when new, must meet the specs laid out...things can deteriorate over time...that's not something the Mfg. can control. Head up and locked? Did I say "other circumstances" Where did I say the manufacturer could control anything? Go ahead and tell me the conversation you are going to have with PD. Yes sir, I know I was 100# overloaded and yes sir I was doing 200MPH when I deployed the reserve, but it should not have been damaged???? How are you going to defend that? You have missed the point, read the post and read your Pointers. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #52 June 2, 2003 QuoteGenerally"? There is nothing general about TSO. In fact its very specific. Experience level has nothing to do with it. Open your manual back up and read standard type and low speed type. Manufacturers are required to mark, Part number, Manufacturer name and address, DOM and/or serial #, FAA TSO-C23c Category A, B, or C limits which are. A 198#@130KTS, B 254#@150KTS, C 254#@175KTS. I'm very aware of how the TSO process works, and am aware of what markings a canopy must have, but this doesn't change the fact that the Mfg. sets the limits of use (as long as they're under the FAA's max limits). The TSO has nothing to do with what the Mfg. gives as DNE. They are two separate animals. As with all certified stuff, you are required to comply with the more conservative numbers issued. The TSO process is one that gives the FAA control over minimums. The Mfg DNE is what gives the Mfg some limit of liability. There is no question as to why the numbers are different, if you wonder why, ask a lawyer. QuoteGo ahead and tell me the conversation you are going to have with PD. Yes sir, I know I was 100# overloaded and yes sir I was doing 200MPH when I deployed the reserve, but it should not have been damaged???? How are you going to defend that? I think we're actually saying the same thing here, unless I misread what you said originally. My point was, once someone is over load/over speed, the Mfg. is basically off the hook from a liability sense. They (the Mfg.) said not to do this, you did it and it broke. Perhaps I wasn't clear in how I presented that, although it read fine to me.... My point of "other circumstances" is that the Mfg. is going to have loop holes to get out of trouble based on circumstances out of their control. It's hard to hold Mfgs. accountable for much, once use and abuse is involved...like I said, I think we're saying the same thing here. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #53 June 3, 2003 >The porosity change after 40 repacks just can't matter that much >given that F-111 main canopies still fly like new with the same usage. Depends on the size of the canopy. A .9 to 1 loaded F111 main might still fly just fine after 500 jumps; a 1.6 to 1 loaded reserve (not unusual nowadays) may need every bit of flare to land someone safely - indeed, to meet a minimum descent rate, it may need all that non-porosity. It may not be OK after 50 jumps. >Perhaps the difference is the length of time that the canopy is packed? From what I've learned talking to George Galloway (among others) this is not the case. Once you stop handling it, 'aging' stops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #54 June 3, 2003 QuoteI am not saying though that a reserve with 3-4 rides cant be jumped, just if it were not mine and I actually didnt experience the reserve rides myself then I wouldnt want that canopy.. well you should rather look at his main or how he works whith the gear.BASE canopies are made by f111,and they go aprox 400-500 jump and dont tell me we are nice to them. I think the #of jump on a reserve tells more about the person who has the gear than about the reserve.(ie if he has all the jumps on it).Dont think that much in how many jump it has,more which the condition the rig as a set is.Did the person who owned it care about it or not? Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
