Nickkk 0 #1 April 25, 2006 So im still not really getting these... Everyone says drop a knee and an elbow. Would this be like the equivilant of trying to touch your elbow to your knee on the same side? When learning flat turns in mantis position i was told to pivot at the waist as if you were trying to touch your elbow to your opposite knee and that helped. I would search if it was broken so sorry if this was discussed before! What do you do when someone throws a big planet at you? Throw your pilot chute in defense! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gandhi 0 #2 April 25, 2006 Had the same snag, paid someones jump ticked and told them to fall straight down! try dipping a knee, and hold it dipped, you'll end up doing a turn pivoting roughly about your head.. then while your doing that, move the arm on the same side, as if you want to do an arm turn (ie right leg down, and trying to arm turn to the right) in THE OTHER direction, start off with a little bit of arm, and you will find that the turn rate caused by your leg is reduced, this is because on top of turning, you are sliding at the same time. This is how you control the radius if you are doing nice orbiting turn (ie filming above a formation) it would pay to do this with another jumper to get a point to relate to. keep adding a little more arm, and at the point when the turn stops. you've totally counteracted the leg turn using ur arm.... you're side sliding! i find also that that if i wanted to slide right, if i clench my right arse cheek, that helps to shove my right hip down and thus my body has tilted (like an aircraft fuselage in a turn), deflecting air to the left, and pushing me right, vice versa to the left. i find this helps with my fall rate, if i do this, i need less arm/leg movement, and so a spoon like me has a smaller change of fall rate to contend with.. trying to link for example right elbow to right knee if you think about it like that, may cause you to de-arch... slow down etc, and in my case, on top of that, my spine lost its straightness and banana'd, and i kinda lost it! Hope this helps! quote 'you are to go around... next time extend your landing gear' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #3 April 25, 2006 Airspeed coaching, and lots of it!!! Worked for meHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #4 April 25, 2006 What I learned in the tunnel is that you can side slide many different ways. I was overamping my slides and it was causing me to make way to large of moves. The coach i was with stopped me and made me do side slides with just my hands. I never knew you could move so much just by turning your hands one way or the other. I don't think it would work so great in the air but in the tunnel it proved a point. Anyways, I teach students how to slide by telling them to push away from the direction they want to go with thier arm and leg. Thats not a great way to do it if you want to do 4-way or close fast flying though. Thats just to get the idea. Another way to side slide is using both your legs. If you want to slide to the right you can drop your right knee and extend your left leg. To the left, drop your left knee and extend your right leg. This is good if you want to keep your arms free for taking grips giving hand signals, whatever. For some reason in my mind it seems like it would make you move forward, but that doesn't seem to be the case as I proved to myself in the tunnel. Maybe I compensated with my arms a little, I don't know. You can also practice half moves and work up to the slides. If you are flying mantis start by working with just your upper half. It helps to have someone to reference but you don't have to have that. Use your arms only to rock your body back and forth. You will be turning with the pivot point on your legs if you do this right. It is half of a center point turn. (Can you do centerpoint turns yet?) Once you can rock back and forth smoothly add your legs into the mix. Right Sidesliding is using a right turn position on your upper body and a left turn position on your lowerbody. Think about what you would be doing if you were doing a centerpoint turn and adjust that for slides and practice on the ground. You want the air to be spilling off you on all parts of your body towards the side you are going away from. There are lots of ways to do it you just have to find the right one for you.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nickkk 0 #5 April 25, 2006 Quote Right Sidesliding is using a right turn position on your upper body and a left turn position on your lowerbody. Think about what you would be doing if you were doing a centerpoint turn and adjust that for slides and practice on the ground. You want the air to be spilling off you on all parts of your body towards the side you are going away from. There are lots of ways to do it you just have to find the right one for you. This really helped shed some light on the situation! Thanks! And yes i fly mantis and can do center turns, nailed them in the tunnel! What do you do when someone throws a big planet at you? Throw your pilot chute in defense! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #6 May 10, 2006 Raise the lagging elbow and drop the leading knee. That's how I do it, works like a charm. So, to slide left: Raise right elbow and drop left knee. This actually took a lot of practice, hours, to get to the point where I have a quick response, good speed, and go accross without leading with either the upper or lower body. Best regards, BW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #7 May 11, 2006 I do that and also have kind of moved towards punching that leading hip in the direction I want to go. Very snappy, very even. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt1215 0 #8 May 13, 2006 Quote>>>This actually took a lot of practice, hours, to get to the point where I have a quick response, good speed, and go accross without leading with either the upper or lower body. <<< How do you do this intentionally, leading with your lower body in particular? Dipping my left knee and left elbow is my preferred method for left SS. Watching my AFF-3 vid, one instructor's holding on to me and the other looks like he's side-sliding in an arc, leading with his legs to stay in front of me. Leg awareness was my biggest weakness in AFF (got legs out signal a lot) so he may have just been doing big turns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #9 May 13, 2006 If your flying Mantis, you all ready have your arm at such an angle that you elbow is pointing some down from your hand. The reason that raising the right elbow is prefered to lowering the left, to turn or slide left, is that you will loose lift if you futher lower your left elbow. This will affect, increase, your fall rate. In RW you want to maintain a steady fall rate, so of course, you stay with everybody else. BW QuoteHow do you do this intentionally, leading with your lower body in particular? Dipping my left knee and left elbow is my preferred method for left SS. Watching my AFF-3 vid, one instructor's holding on to me and the other looks like he's side-sliding in an arc, leading with his legs to stay in front of me. Leg awareness was my biggest weakness in AFF (got legs out signal a lot) so he may have just been doing big turns. That's called carving. He's sliding faster with his legs than with his arms, so he moves in an arc. It's all practice. I got two words for that: Tunnel time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #10 May 14, 2006 Quote When learning flat turns in mantis position i was told to pivot at the waist as if you were trying to touch your elbow to your opposite knee and that helped. Everyone has different teaching styles and body positions... My first tunnel coach (very experienced world record holder) told me when I first started out with him as my coach in the tunnel, "we need to find your neutral position... There are a few key things to this position that everyone must have, but a lot of it will be individual to you. Keeping the torso straight is one of the key things..." Every coach I have worked with does NOT teach turning anything in the torso for any "textbook maneuver"... They equate the torso of the human to the fuselage of an aircraft... You can't twist or turn the fuselage on any axis, so neither should you (except for the arch which changes fall rate)... All the control inputs instead should come from arms and legs, keeping the torso neutral. So, what makes a center point turn? It is using your arms and legs to initiate the turn with equal force so you spin around the center. What is a side slide - the same exact movements with your legs and arms as the CP turn, but instead of opposite directions, the same direction... In the big picture, does turning your torso a bit cause you to not win world records - probably not, and the world class skydivers probably do.... But these coaches who have helped me learn never told me to do it when we are working on perfecting the textbook maneuver... I have put together a bunch of tunnel flying videos that show each drill, that I have on my laptop, that I use in prebrifing and postbrefing students when we go to the tunnel... I got a screenshot that I attached here. The coach is the one being pushed on, and he is overamping the side slide body position to push on the student. This would be a very aggressive side slide if the student was not there to push back, and in fact, in a few frames the student is against the glass because he failed to push... Notice how it is not really "droping a leg" - but instead "twisting a leg"... You need to make a rutter to deflect air, and pointing your knee out does that. I personally think in my mind, "point my knee where I want to go". Some coaches teach the leg position differently, but the one shown here is the one that works for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #11 May 15, 2006 I tried extending the lagging arm that way. I ended up going so fast that it was hard to stop before running into the other side of the tunnel. Also, it's hard to extend your other arm that way to stop in a like fashion for the same reason unless you only want to slide two feet at a time. Cheers, BW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 May 15, 2006 QuoteI tried extending the lagging arm that way. Every pro coach we've had immediately tried to break that habit (for side slides, since the picture looks like a pushing drill, this ISN'T a comment on the flyer in the pic). Keep the hands in. You can generate a lot of energy with normal mantis elbow rotation while keeping the hands in where they can be used when you stop. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
