Tracking steeper??

[steve1 5]

I'm having trouble tracking steep enough. I went on a couple 40 ways the other day where the base funnelled. I was one of the last out of the trail Otter. I know you are supposed to stay in your quadrant and not side slide, but to tell you the truth I was all over the sky trying to get down there in time.

I've got a buddy who says he has better luck tucking his legs way back against his backback, dearching, and placing his hands on the bottom of his back pack. When he wants to go steeper he lowers his head more. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm not having much luck tracking steep with my legs out.....Steve1

[rehmwa 2]

Stay in your sector.

No one says you can't back up (and down) and then once you get to the angle you can dive better on then go forward into your dive. Just don't go into a sit or a headdown to lose altitude, because one time.... well, you don't need to know about that.

Lots of big way types in this forum. Someone actually good at it will write soon.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[dgskydive 0]

First make sure you are getting presented well on exit. Get your belly in the wind!

Second Identify the base.

Third intercept the base. A big mistake people make is trying to go to the base.

What, you say? I have to go to the base.

You should go where the base is goin to be.

That may be why you where all over the sky. You may have been aiming for the base and it may have been moving still.

A lot of people have trouble diving at first. It isn't a track and it isn't head down. It is in between. What helps me is to get in a good Delta poistion and aim with my head.

If it is a short dive. Then your friends method may be ok. It all depends on where you are in the lineup. Some people don't have to dive at all and some dive for days. Putting your feet on your butt and putting your hands behind your back along with arching real hard will get you down faster but you can't really adjust your filte path real well and you may just be sliding around because of that. I would need to see video and see what you are or are not doing.

You should come to one of the PPP Big Way camps at Perris somtime. You will have some of the best big way people in the world coaching it. Good video to debrief. You can tell them in the sign up sheet what you want to work on and they will fo their best to get you up to speed.

diving takes practice and to be real good at it you need to be current at it like anything else in skydiving.

Dom

[rdesilets 0]

Hi Dom!
One thing that I did when I started doing big ways was a few solo's. I practiced by picking an object on the ground and went head down, hard arch, and somewhere in between. You can really feel how you speed up, slow down, change direction, etc.

Then you can master this while *not* trying to head towards a 40-way.

Go to a big way camp at Perris..

[daveb 1]

When diving towards a formation, you must absolutely, at all times, keep your eye on where you are going, see what is in front and beside you, and know what is behind you. Unless and until you are in control of direction and speed, you should not be diving steeply - it is an accident waiting to happen. Stairstepping is also a dangerous practice; those coming after you do not know when you are going to slow down, which makes collisions that much more likely.

Your best bet is to hire a coach to work with you on a few jumps, to help you understand how to dive (not track steeply!) safely. Diving cannot be learned from a book or online, it must be practiced. That said, something to try using one-on-one practice jumps is to keep your face pointing towards your direction of travel (look, look, look!), legs straight out behind you, no more than shoulder width apart, toes pointed, arms either at your sides or tucked around your chest, with little to no arch (not a de-arch).

It's really not all that hard to do, but do not learn it on a big way. There's alot more to diving on a big way than body position, and no one can afford to be concentrating on body position when closing distances (horizontal or vertical). Once you've learned the basics of diving straight, catch one of the big way camps for excellent advice from the best in the world.

[dgskydive 0]

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Stairstepping is also a dangerous practice; those coming after you do not know when you are going to slow down, which makes collisions that much more likely.

You may want to talk to Larry Henderson about that comment.

Stairstepping (Stadium) is the way it should be done. The people behind you should be setting up higher and behind you and following you in to your slot. This is the way it should be done.

I don't make this stuff up guys. I have some of the best big way organizers sitting not more then 7 feet away from all day long almost everyday. I ask questions, listen and observe them all the time. One of the things they look for is how well you can set up in the stadium picture and how you can set up and follow the people in front of you in to your slot.


Rob, maybe you will back me up on this. I know you have come to the camps and have heard the "heads" talk about how to approach and dock on a big way formation.

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Your best bet is to hire a coach to work with you on a few jumps, to help you understand how to dive (not track steeply!) safely. Diving cannot be learned from a book or online, it must be practiced.

Agreed. Don't learn on a big way unless it is set up as a learning camp where it is taken into consideration and that is part of the plan.

One of the biggest requests at the camps is from people that want to learn to dive better. They are more then willing to allow you to do that, and will give you feed back on it.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Hello Rob! Good to hear from ya.

Folks this guy learned so much at the last camp he came too.

I remember meeting him the day before the camp started. Seemed a bit in awe when he got to Perris. After a few jumps he was all over it and got better with each jump. ESPECIALLY after he found the true value of a big baggy shirt!

Dom

[daveb 1]

Quote

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Stairstepping is also a dangerous practice; those coming after you do not know when you are going to slow down, which makes collisions that much more likely.

You may want to talk to Larry Henderson about that comment.

Stairstepping (Stadium) is the way it should be done. The people behind you should be setting up higher and behind you and following you in to your slot. This is the way it should be done.

I don't make this stuff up guys. I have some of the best big way organizers sitting not more then 7 feet away from all day long almost everyday. I ask questions, listen and observe them all the time. One of the things they look for is how well you can set up in the stadium picture and how you can set up and follow the people in front of you in to your slot.

Perhaps I am using the term 'stairstepping' different from you? Agreed on the stadium type setup, but stairstepping as I understand the term is breaking the long dive into multiple, smaller dives (not yellow/red zone approaches, but full on dives). I do not see this as a sound practice -- it leaves precious little recognition and reaction time, as well as causing a big ripple to propagate upwards towards the last divers.

I was on Larry's wacker (wacker 10 rocks!) in Thailand, on the last row of divers out of the lead C-130, and our wacker discussed this at some length. We agreed that stairstepping was a safety issue and we would not do it. Now, I'm not nearly as qualified as the big-way gurus (Larry, Tony, Kate, BJ, Dan, ...) and I'll certainly defer to their experience and teaching. If I'm wrong on this, I'll gladly retract my advice.

I'll be on the Texas 150-way in three weeks, and I'll be certain to ask Larry, BJ and crew for clarification. In the meantime, my basic advice is sound: learn to dive using two-ways, and learn big-way techniques by building from there and attend big way camps as you can.

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I have some of the best big way organizers sitting not more then 7 feet away from all day long almost everyday.

Lucky sob. ;-)

[rdesilets 0]

Tony and I ordered my new "big" Tony suit the last day of the camp. About 6 weeks later it arrived... Guess what? I have NEVER gone low since I got that suit and am now flying right in the middle of my range.. instead of always on the verge of going low every jump.. Dress for success...

[steve1 5]

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Stay in your sector.

No one says you can't back up (and down) and then once you get to the angle you can dive

I was wondering about this?? Does this mean tracking down in the direction of flight for a while, and then coming back toward the formation. Couldn't this also result in a collision?

I guess my stupidity on this subject is really starting to show. Twenty ways are a whole lot different than 40 or bigger. I'd love to attend a big way camp (maybe this winter). I also know a few people who went to Thailand last winter. Maybe I need to start picking their brains on this subject.

I realize now that I have no buisness leaving late until I get my diving under control. Being last out on a twenty way is a lot different than trying it on a big way....Steve1

[kallend 1,625]

Kind of related topic. I've just filled another logbook and as I was going through it I noticed that I now have over 100 jumps of 100 way of bigger. In every case but two I've been a floater or early diver from a trail plane (in the 2 exceptions I was a late diver from a trail plane).

Anyhow, in about 1/2 of these jumps the organizers had the trail plane floaters docking before and in front of the first and second row divers.

I'm not sure what reasoning they use for that, but it always results in the floaters having to fly through (and below) the early divers to get to their slots, increasing the risk of a take-out. That's how it was originally set up at Cross-Keys last month. However, Kate Cooper (our plane captain) reorganized our plane's exit in a way that was much more rational to my thinking.

Any comments from the big-way experts?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.