Point move on Block 20

[AlexJ 1]

Hey all,

Our 20 currently works like this. IC turns OC backwards, and Point and Tail cog with the piece. How many teams are doing it like this? The other technique that I have in mind is for Point to shear, the way Airspeed currently does it I think. Center going backwards with Tail cogging works great. I'm just interested in the best move for Point. Any of you out there trained both ways? All comments appreciated!

Ciao,
Alex

[NeedToJump 0]

I'm point on my team and the way I do the move is I key the formation with tail and move out (so OC has room for the move) and do about a 270 immediately so I can see where the piece is turning to. I finish the rest of the turn slowly and moving back in so that when I finish my turn I will guarantee the catch. I super impose the turn with sort of a V shape as I move away and then back in.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[daveb 1]

Inferno used the cog with IC turning OC. I tried the shear technique last year with OC spinning IC, but was spectacularly unsuccessful. Since our cog times were relatively good, and very consistent up front, we kept the cog.

This year, Thunder is using the shear with IC turning OC. I'm now closing it quite well for the most part. The big realization was that I should not translate in the vertical, and that the vertical over the IC legs is quite small. The resulting 360 feels two-stagey - barely over IC feet and face the formation, then finish targeting legs into OC grip from the side. The block is closing very well, and mostly consistently. We don't exactly have a lot of practice on this block yet, but the shear feels better than the cog of last year.

Best advice I can give here is stick with what is working for you right now, and spend your training on those blocks giving you some grief. If you've some tunnel time, you might try a 3-way with the shear just to feel the difference, but otherwise, it's pretty late in the year to change unless it's a real problem area.

[rehmwa 2]

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This year, Thunder is using the shear with IC turning OC. I'm now closing it quite well for the most part. The big realization was that I should not translate in the vertical, and that the vertical over the IC legs is quite small. The resulting 360 feels two-stagey - barely over IC feet and face the formation, then finish targeting legs into OC grip from the side. The block is closing very well, and mostly consistently. We don't exactly have a lot of practice on this block yet, but the shear feels better than the cog of last year.

We do it like Dave noted (and the tail cogs of course). But we did add the little translation with the initial point vert. You know, the point does normally overshoots a bit anyway but he's normally done as fast or faster than tail anyway so it never slowed us. Now our tail is much crisper this year.......We'll try the point move without the translation and see how that works this year.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AlexJ 1]

The shear makes sense to me since the Point has better visuals and can start turning immediately. With the cog I seem to have to pause for a second while IC gets going then turn in behind him and then spin like a demon. The visuals during the turn arent great and I dont seem to be able to beat the OC around so that I cog into her hands. I tried a few this past weekend and a couple of times I was a bit late and once when I beat the OC I took a knee to the head. On creepers though the move is sweet. I think the center piece turns faster in the air. The shear with a small vert over IC's legs may ensure that I can close sooner and more accurately, primarily because I can start turning straight away and have good visuals on the center piece?

[daveb 1]

I got my black eye from block 4, and had my bell rung on 3, but I've not come close on block 20. My technique on cogging piver/viper was dock on IC, eyes with T, key and turn right 90, and as soon as IC legs cleared my legs, follow with my legs immediately behind IC legs, finishing another 360-400 degrees of turn, watching my legs into OC grips, looking over my left shoulder in a healthy cheat. There was only a small moment when I did not have good visuals with the center -- the secret here is to delay the head switch on the turn as long as possible.

I suspect the pause before you start your move is what is causing your problems. Try the above technique, and see if that works better.

[rehmwa 2]

OK, we tried it last night like you said without the extra little point hop translation. He did both the out and in, as well as the just the straight up and back down.

So the difference is, the center just took the slightly longer spin and the outside solo moves turned in place instead of traveled and turned. We slowed the center down to make a clean cog with the tail.

SWEET, best 20s ever, we got to see it 4 times on that jump since it was only a 4 point practice dive. It let us (center) focus on the tail/cog and guarantee that catch, my point was closing clean (with a turn finish rather than a slide in - much softer, much faster) each time as soon as I switched to pick up his knees (I'm OC).

We hit 20 earlier in this forum and those hints were nice. This last tidbit really gave me the final info on this block.

THANKS

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Mad47 0]

I am just curious, was it Scott’s left knee on mono-mono?

[daveb 1]

Nope - Bu (IC). I was attempting to cut down the vertical a bit too much. Lesson: when doing vertical moves, it is helpful to have some vertical separation.

[rehmwa 2]

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Nope - Bu (IC). I was attempting to cut down the vertical a bit too much. Lesson: when doing vertical moves, it is helpful to have some vertical separation.

Point goes under about a foot? (straight down with the cut and move and then back up on the finish?)

or over about 3?

I used to go over when on point (tapping both rigs on the way for separation), but always thought under made more sense since I was facing in mostly and only was concerned with torso overlap.

I need to pay more attention to top dog's videos...

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[daveb 1]

On block 4 (mono-mono), point should be a bit more than one foot below, at least on my team. Failure to acheive the requisite vertical separation resulted in my seeing my IC's knee up close and personal. I've always gone under on 4: good visuals, less vertical needed, more grip surface available to OC on close without reaching up/down, and less chance of back-packing someone.

I've not hit OC on block 20 yet, shear or cog. Crashed the close, many times, but the shear has cleaned that up a bunch.

[daveb 1]

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It let us (center) focus on the tail/cog and guarantee that catch, my point was closing clean (with a turn finish rather than a slide in - much softer, much faster) each time as soon as I switched to pick up his knees (I'm OC).

We got some more reps in this weekend, finally; Dallas area weather has been anything but jumper friendly since December 2003 -- I heard a Seattle native joking that he was going to return home just to get some good weather!. But I digress. ;-)

Most of the times when I attempted the small hop over IC legs, I would also slide away from the formation. We do the block at a pretty good clip, so I'm turning as I'm hopping, and usually end up slanted on the vert. This doesn't keep me close. So I tried using no vertical at all: I key, turn left 90, wait for IC legs, finish turn into grips. The only issue now is I have to watch my spacing so I'm not too crunchy on the close. I have great vision of the center, excellent proximity, and a relatively leisurely pace to ensure a smooth move.

It may not equal the technique of the top teams, but for our current level, it is quick and consistent, on the hill and on the flat.