Nick 0 #1 January 22, 2004 Ok here's a question for the 4-way addicts. On block 2 (Sidebody Donut - Side Flake Donut) it's normal for point to move backwards slightly so that the donut can cheat the 360. How far do you think you could get away with cheating this move or would this just be judge’s discretion? Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #2 January 22, 2004 He can orbit all the way around if you want (not practical, quicker to spin the donut and move at the same time). The 360 must be completed 'relative' to the other (albeit 1-way) 'piece'. Heck, I bet if you had the team skill, you could even do a little vertical hop provide the center point isn't violated - but I don't think I've seen this on any vids of block 2 yet by the big guys. I think all the blocks can be treated that way - turns must be completed relative to the center point of each piece. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still rather new and haven't done other than regional meets.... Our point doesn't 'back up' either in this case, just side slides around to make the initial catch and then let's the other bit close from momentum/or a little extra turn/stop at the end. Best thing to do is watch the video clips of the big guys and see how much they cheat on the verticals and moves, etc. They likely have the correct balance figured out for their individual/piece flying skills. I have the full dive pool in bits and pieces for both the Knights and Majik - it's great to learn from. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick 0 #3 January 22, 2004 Quoteyou could even do a little vertical hop provide the center point isn't violated I was wondering if you could do exactly that, may not be totally practical but was just thinking out of the box. Cheers Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #4 January 22, 2004 hmmm, not sure what you mean by "backing up". The donut turns backward, so really, relative to the donut, the solo flyer (at least the way we do it) goes diagonally forward. It doesn't look like this on video because of the relative motions of the pieces, but the block technique I've been taught is to go diagonally (so you stay facing the donut). Hard to explain without a picture, but the inter picture you want is like the tail of a monopod/unipod, where you would be able to take grips on the leg of the person you're going to dock on and the arm of the person who has their leg (usually the OC and the Tail, but not always). You should be facing the middle of the donut at that point. That way, you can hook the OC's leg with your arm and swing around to close the block. Ugh, that's hard to explain without actually showing you. Look at where the tail is on a unipod (random A)...that should be the picture you're going for as you go to close the block. It should also be the point where the poeple in the donut stop turning it. ask someone who knows next time you're at the DZ.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #5 January 22, 2004 Hi BB - You're clear, really. You're doing what we do. (he means 'backing' up because since that's the finished position, some solos might think backing around gives them an edge instead of a blind spot) It's really an inward facing orbit - think 'sideslide' (close enough for description purposes) instead of 'diagonal' and it's easier to explain in writing. That's what I'm taking from your description. When a team is really starting out fresh, I just ask the ind flyer to look for the 'cat' picture on the catch and 'guarantee' that first grip before letting their body swing around. Then they definitely don't 'back around' but move forward instead. Later they can turn their body around to a more finished position right before the catch. (Either way, I like to 'think' about eyeballing that inside gripper rather than thinking about the outside gripper to make sure it caught) Whenever my point (ind flyer on 2) tries to back around, 50% of the time he misses the catch and I (OC) get him first - this is too dangerous for us if we miss and have momentum. Now he tries to avoid making the turn too soon now. It's one of our better blocks now. It's about the only one I don't mind having some momentum on at the catch. If you want to avoid it, spin the 3-way faster (drop those inside knees) then the solo flyer doesn't get rushed so much and can guarantee the catch. (For Nick later) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick 0 #6 January 22, 2004 Cheers for the info guys. I've done the block a couple of times and have worked it exactly as you say but was just wondering if there was any value in "popping over the top" a little to cut off the corner, but it's probably more effort than it's worth. One of the problems I envisiged (sp) was that the donut would be doing even less of the 360 (possibly as little as 200) than they do currently and was wondering how judges would take this. Nick Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #7 January 22, 2004 QuoteHeck, I bet if you had the team skill, you could even do a little vertical hop provide the center point isn't violated - but I don't think I've seen this on any vids of block 2 yet by the big guys. I'm pretty sure that I've seen some of the big name teams do this when they exit the 2 but not after that.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 January 22, 2004 So Nick - your better question might be to PM one of the better competitors here (Mario, Ron, Melanie) and ask if they know 'why' the big dogs don't do that. (I think I have seen a little vert subterminal also, thanks) edit: I'm sure there's other high teen average players out there, but I don't know names yet and hope to figure it out as I go. Sorry for only listing three) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #9 January 22, 2004 Quoteask if they know 'why' the big dogs don't do that They do some. Airspeed did a sweet move in Eloy in 2000. Eagle went right over the top on exit and the donut piece did a little over 180. It probably should have been abust, but they got away with it. They changed it slightly, and the donut piece turns more now. At terminal some teams do a *Slight* vertical with the solo going under the second guy. For most teams its not worth trying. Can go with front solo or rear...I will describe the front in the way my team was doing it. The solo gives the key. The OC person he is on BACKS straight up clearing the way for the solo to almost go straight forward. Then the IC Kicks sideways through then stops. Rear just "make it happen" Its kinda of a back/sideways move. It is a 3 piece move in the donut OC, IC then rear with a small all rotation to the finish. ALL people in the piece look at the solo. The piece will sort of move out of the way, then move back towards the solo. All people in the piece pull it in to speed it up and 2/3rds of the way through push it back out. It is one of the blocks with more than one way to do it. Beginer teams will want to rotate it more and the solo will not move more than 90 degrees or so. In this case each person just backs up at the same time...Then once it starts to spin pull it in tight. (You have to have motion for it to speed up the spin.) But yes, the solo can "cheat it " as much as you want as long as you have the right grips."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 January 22, 2004 Cool, Ron. I can see it. it's like the shear move of a two way piece, each member of the 3-way 'takes' his turns with just a tad overlap instead of distinct move.... pPOint just hops forward and lands in the slot and the piece closes..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #11 January 22, 2004 QuotepPOint just hops forward and lands in the slot and the piece closes..... Point goes UNDER not over. After the vert he starts to get big as soon as the IC goes over him. Think about it. To put my body under your I just have to miss by inches. To go over I have to clear your feet."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 January 22, 2004 Ok, like SFO/Turf Someone has to clear someone's feet. But I think I understand THANKS ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #13 January 22, 2004 QuoteSomeone has to clear someone's feet. But I think I understand Not if it is just the upper part of the solos body going under....His feet don't"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #14 January 22, 2004 Doh - Of course, you are right (that wasn't so hard to say) So for my point it's staged: let oc clear dip torso under the IC as he passes raise up as/before the tail passes and watch for the OC to close still must make the turn while slipping under) and a bit of forward motion to meet (maybe a body length) mini-corrections but the catch visual is a donut picture? and the 3-way moves to that same beat: OC clear, IC pass and accelerate, tail pass and start to brake, finish with OC presented to point - the 3-way still does most of the turn - maybe 220 - 240? When spinning big round pieces I think in terms of pushing the individuals through and past the center rather than just rotating the piece, this way they kind of spin and translate forward through the shear - same idea? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #15 January 22, 2004 Yep thats pretty much it...However have the solo go down, not just dip the torso. If he just dips the torso he might move in more than he wants...That would be bad. The IC moves all the way through and tries to stop, not accelerate. (he will move, but he should not try)."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 January 23, 2004 Yeah, that makes sense. Cool Now all I need is temperatures above 30F or so THANKS ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #17 January 23, 2004 Florida was 70 today."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #18 January 23, 2004 Yeah, thanks, I feel much better now. Especially with it snowing. As long as it's still nice in April when we come down. I think I'll be getting the skis loaded in the truck as soon as I get home. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
