So Brian Germain got me thinking...

[Calvin19 0]

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in old PG design, there was ideas for full-flying risers, meaning the riser was infinitely adjustable. (meaning that the AOA of the glider was infinitely adjustable).

the only control in paragliders and parachutes is camber, and a small amount of indirect AOA control.

for the most part, brakes are very inefficient as swoopers have figured out long ago and started using front and rear riser input as much as possible.

If you want the MOST efficient control, you will have to abandon the illusion of simplicity.

I really don't understand what you're saying there, from my research (not too extensive, that is why I am discussing), paragliding speed flying canopies (nano, bullet etc) and paragliders will be more inclined to 'frontal' collapse with a substancial amount of front riser input?

They have speed bars and trim tabs etc. but those are calculated to remain within a stable position and not exceed? any more input than that would be potentially fatal?

That is why you see 'speed fliers' using toggles and 'ground launchers' using risers?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I see it and being a swooper I will be inclined to fly with risers, until a point where parachutes are proven to fly faster without!

It is all a difference in equipment and desired flight. some speed gliders are designed for fastest recovery and good glide, meaning they are like paragliders, and a hard harness turn is all the pilot needs to get desired "swoop". some speed gliders are modeled after swooping canopies and perform the same, and using riser input is ok. (some speed gliders have trimmers set to max safe riser input, any more could exceed the critical negative AOA creating negative lift and creating a collapse.

I ground launch my speed gliders and paragliders, "foot launching" is just the way to get in the air. in my experience parachutes in the foot launching world perform considerably worse in all ways compared to their specific design paraglider counterparts. (IE a Stilletto 135 would have a significantly poorer glide ratio, speed and sink rate than a Bullet 12m[same size pretty much] and same with a Velocity 90(or whatever) compared to a Bullet GT 7m. where if "skydive swooping" was the goal, may not be as long, but just as fast or faster.

it's all a different approach to what you want to do. I

[rhys 0]

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It is all a difference in equipment and desired flight. some speed gliders are designed for fastest recovery and good glide, meaning they are like paragliders, and a hard harness turn is all the pilot needs to get desired "swoop". some speed gliders are modeled after swooping canopies and perform the same, and using riser input is ok. (some speed gliders have trimmers set to max safe riser input, any more could exceed the critical negative AOA creating negative lift and creating a collapse.

I have seen speedflyers doing sharp rotations to stay relative with the ground, it seems a flat trim is not always ideal in 'speed' flying certain slopes?

and super short recovery arc wouldn't help the 'speed' factor either?

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I ground launch my speed gliders and paragliders, "foot launching" is just the way to get in the air. in my experience parachutes in the foot launching world perform considerably worse in all ways compared to their specific design paraglider counterparts. (IE a Stilletto 135 would have a significantly poorer glide ratio, speed and sink rate than a Bullet 12m[same size pretty much] and same with a Velocity 90(or whatever) compared to a Bullet GT 7m. where if "skydive swooping" was the goal, may not be as long, but just as fast or faster.

Not entirely sure what you re saying there but to comment on your considerably worse statement; is that not subjective?

Parachutes have around a 3.1 glide ratio and paragliders have much more, skydivers are used to that glide ratio and paragliders are used to much more glide so when it comes down to what one consideres 'Fast', wouldn't that depend on what experience they already have.

I have only ground launched parachutes and I am very much looking forward to flying a nano or bullet or similar, I know these wings will give me joy and will probably perform better on more terrain as they will have a better glide ratio, but there are mountains out there that are steep and large, i have jumped on sub 100 canopies for thousands of jumps and have spent alot of time in the mountains snowboarding and skiing including an avalanche diploma, and experience with explosives. It will be interesting to see what type of wing will be more suitsble for me when I finally get to spend another winter in New Zealand this year (maybe). Speed riding is the plan.

I have only ground launched in the summer in New Zealand...

I'm getting a GLX becuse I know at least a couple of places that I can ground launch and have enough height to perform High performance turn and land on the beach on a fresh water lake (swoop course!), but for speed riding I will be open minded, there will be other wings around, to compare, but all the same it is gong to be fun and exciting.

I have plenty of snowboard and ski experience, an avalanche ticket and and mates with sleds and explosive licences...

whos gonna be in queenstown this winter?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Calvin19 0]

not exactly sure what we are arguing here, but whatev.

for me, I like following terrain, through trees, on the slope, and fast recovery arc. I like getting above my glider or all the way around it a lot down the mountain. on a 300m slope I can do 5 hard dives and a few rolls in a bullet 12. on a GLX 135 half the slope is used up gaining speed or preparing for landing.

the GLX is way better for huge terrain and the desire to gosuper fast with long dives than a bullet or nano. but it takes a huge amount of speed in comparison to fly.

I prefer and recommend purpose-designed speed gliders and harnesses (like the GLX, bullet, skim, nano, HLRCR, ect) because the purpose built gliders perform better in my opinion. they also are safer. A recent injury in Colorado, and a very bad one in Hawaii was SPECIFICALLY caused by inferior skydiving equipment being used for ground launching. with a little training and the right gear, both accidents would have been easily prevented.

-SPACE-

[rhys 0]

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for me, I like following terrain, through trees, on the slope, and fast recovery arc. I like getting above my glider or all the way around it a lot down the mountain. on a 300m slope I can do 5 hard dives and a few rolls in a bullet 12. on a GLX 135 half the slope is used up gaining speed or preparing for landing.

Depends on how much wind are you talking? where I am from the mountains are big and the wind is... windy.

Even on a calm day glass on the lake there will be 10-15 knts on the knuckle of the spur where we usually launch, there we can drive to the launch and landing..., once you are airborne and have surged into flight, then speed is the object of speed flying, is it not? Like the eternal high speed swoop.

Often once we are in the valley there is no wind and as long as you are in full flight you are away. It does take some technique to get into full flight but once you are there it is easy. and FAST!

I still would like a wing like you are inclined to use for more access to flying, but the high performance parachutes are the fastest speed flying canopies by far and in time the paraglider companies will increse the angle of attack to keep up!

What I want and what you want will morph into one thing over this next decade i'm sure. It is still in it's infancy, speedflying/riding... that is, and it appeals to a wide array of potential participants.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Calvin19 0]

I think we are just two idiots who can't figure out we are talking about the exact same thing. You just like longer dive recovery and more average speed, I like short recovery and the ability to go slow if I want, but never as fast as you. a GLX would be better for big mountain soaring for sure, but that is terrifying!

bottom line is, don't use a GLX or a lame skydive canopy on the hills I fly easily with my not as fast but better glide ships, it breaks legs! I don't go out in epic winds with my glider, sure Ill go soar in 15-20kt, but never more. scary!

[rhys 0]

i'll agree that 20kt's plus is too scary and too lumpy for sure.

it seems both wing types are ideal for different conditions.

I would like to have a PG trye wing for mellower more accessable stuff, here in aussie the hills are not as big and have mre trees so it is difficult to find terrain here that is common in New Zealand...

may our paths cross one day...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Calvin19 0]

try the little cloud 18 or bullet XT 16, super cruiser launching and flying, good glide (5/1) and slow landings. perfect for Aussie land, or so I hear.

-SPACE-

[Reginald 0]

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4.74 lbs/sqft

clicky

Anyone know what luigi loaded his 37 at?

Ah the Bruno video! Yep he downsized from his 55 to this 50. If I recall he managed two jumps successfully and then broke his arm when he stalled it on landing on the third jump. I don't know if he's jumped it since then or not. It always scared the hell out of me just watching him land either of those canopies; I like Bruno and would prefer to keep him around. But I'll give it to him he lands those things repeatedly and walks away.

While I don't know what Luigi's WL is on the 37 but I'm guessing it's not anywhere near 4.75.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP