Rear Risers Techniques

[hparrish 0]

Great Responses to the poll, written responses, and feedback. I'm glad to see folks are talking about different techniques here too.

Exactly what I was hoping to see in this thread. Please keep it going.

[rhys 0]

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When you snap the rears, you're introducing a large amount of drag all at once. For one or two seconds the amount of drag is considerable, but when you snap the rears like that, you accelerate your swing forward under the canopy. Once you swing forward far enough, line tension pitches the nose up enough that you can release (or simply maintain) the pressure on the rears and still maintain level flight. After the one or two second spike in drag, you reduce it to very little for the remainder of the swoop.

seems we are on the same page, thanks for the detaled description, i knew my new technique was working and how to do it, but the why part still remained a mystery.

i am going to do some training camps over the next few months before (hopefully) competing at the australian nationals early next year, it will be interesting to see and hear the different techniques and descriptions of these type of things.

thanks agang for you input.

R

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[superstu 0]

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It surprises me how much you pull your front risers down, I have not jumped a velocity much, so can't compare, But i would think with my canopy (JVX79) that if i pulled my front risers anywhere near as much as you did in that video i would be increasing the parasitic drag, deforming my wing and therefore losing performance, speed and distance.

1. if i was a doing a bigger turn i would probably have a different technique that would utilize more harness and a cleaner airfoil, but because i'm only doing a 450 it's not enough time for me to come close to max speed with "helping" it get there.
2. nick batch, who flies a jvx, does the same type of thing but has to let up on the fronts quicker because of the higher pressure on the fronts.

i have a ton of turns that were done with just harness and little to no front riser input and i can create WAYYYY more power with how i'm doing it now. but like i said if i decide to go to a bigger turn where i can reach max speed with out using my fronts then i MIGHT do it otherwise i'll stick with what i have.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[rhys 0]

Hi Stu, This is really interesting stuff. Thanks for your input.

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1. if i was a doing a bigger turn i would probably have a different technique that would utilize more harness and a cleaner airfoil, but because i'm only doing a 450 it's not enough time for me to come close to max speed with "helping" it get there.

How much height do you lose in your 450? on what wingloading and what type of distance would you achieve in the end result, if you hit the gates at the best possible time?

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2. nick batch, who flies a jvx, does the same type of thing but has to let up on the fronts quicker because of the higher pressure on the fronts.

How many degrees dose he turn if he uses that type of technique?

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i have a ton of turns that were done with just harness and little to no front riser input and i can create WAYYYY more power with how i'm doing it now. but like i said if i decide to go to a bigger turn where i can reach max speed with out using my fronts then i MIGHT do it otherwise i'll stick with what i have.Wink

I do in fact use my front risers, but have avoided kinking them so much as to keep the form of the airfoil, there is definately a little slack in the risers when I am starting and I am in the turn. So I 'am' actually using the front risers and putiing considerable energy into them. I consistantly lose 900 feet in a 270 degree turn in practice, but my canopy is new and have some time to master that same turn to the ground level.

When I feel ready for 450's I will experiement with them also, but my new canopy will take some time to really get the hang of...


...safely.

Thanks for your input, I am really going to be concentrating on this over the next year or three and hope to see many of you people, in some upcoming camps and competitions over the next couple or few years!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[davelepka 4]

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i have a ton of turns that were done with just harness and little to no front riser input and i can create WAYYYY more power with how i'm doing it now. but like i said if i decide to go to a bigger turn where i can reach max speed with out using my fronts then i MIGHT do it

Why?

We're talking about the top end of your turn, so what difference does it make what you do to your wing up there, as long as it's cleaned up, going fast, and it puts you where you want to be?

Your airfoil, and it's shape is only important when you're trying to produce lift. During your turn, especially the top part, you're trying to do the opposite, and make the thing dive.

Think back ten years, when eliptical canopies were the cat's ass. They opened great (at least my Stilettos did) had incredible glide, fast turns, could carve like a mother, all of which were the goal in that day. They did have a short recovery arc, but that wasn't important, and it was due to the higher aspect ratio (which allowed the canopy to do that other stuff).

Then x-bracing came along, and made canopies stiffer, and able to support more weight. The next thing you know, canopies are back to being shaped like a barn door, and they fall out of the sky the same way.

The point is that speed is speed, however you get there. The real goal is finish your turn at the right height, and for you to be hanging under your canopy in the correct location. What you did 800ft. up, 5 or 8 seconds ago is not relevant.

This is not to say that every technique is acceptable, or even a good idea. I'm just saying that if you have a technique that delivers the goods at the bottom end, what you did to make it happen must be right.

[superstu 0]

maybe i'm reading the question/ statement wrong, but everything we do to the wing has an impact on the outcome of the swoop. the top part of the turn is definitely relavent and important. the turn in general is obviously where you build the power that allows you to swoop. the amount of power you build is dictated by the type of turn and technique you use. generally speaking 99% of the people out there, pro's included, don't do a big enough turn to hit max speed of a canopy. i think we as swoopers can still go faster, but we aren't good enough to consistantly hit max canopy speed through gates or a swoop lane, we need to do bigger turns and cleaner turns to get there.

rhys asked why i pull down on my fronts so much, well a small part of it is because with only doing a 450 i can get to a higher canopy speed then if i was to just do a harness turn. however, if i was to do a bigger turn i might actually be able to go even faster using just harness input because i would have a potentially higher max speed due to having the airfoil being cleaner and less disturbed.

hopefully that made sense and hopefully i was reading what you wrote correctly.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[superstu 0]

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How much height do you lose in your 450? on what wingloading and what type of distance would you achieve in the end result, if you hit the gates at the best possible time?

depends on canopy, loading, weather, and event, i'm doing. loadings range from about 2.2 to 3.0 and from about 1200' to 1400' at sea level on average. my altitudes are based primarly on my style of turn. Ian Drennan for example, does a very similar turn but his turn altitudes are different because of the minor differences in his style of turn, both generate a lot of power though.

Nick Batch does a 450 but don't know his altitudes or loadings.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down