ianmdrennan 2 #1 May 20, 2009 Hey All, First, I wanted to thank everyone involved in the FLCPA this year - it's been an awesome year and I've enjoyed spending time flying with you all - there is, in my opinion, no better league going right now were amateurs can compete alongside pro's - and have a good shot at winning a meet, as well as benefitting from the experience they are surrounded by. Al, and crew, you've done one hell of a job keeping the league active, exciting, and growing. I also wanted to pass along the following rule changes for the 2010 season, as well as a few juicy tidbits that the League Director has thrown in. The league is now very appealing to PRO's and AM's alike since the end of the year prize has been split into those two categories. So, here's what's on the books for next year: SPEED: First off the speed courses for amateurs will continue to be 10 ft, but to get in line with the USPA rules, we will extend our amateur course to the 220 ft, same as the pro course. DISTANCE: No changes to the distance event are planned. ACCURACY: For accuracy, we will continue to run the current FAI rules for Pro, but a small change for the amatuers. The new amatuer rules will be the same as the pro rules, but instead of being 5 ft first gate to score and water to gain points, the amatuers will be 10 foot to score at all and 5 foot to gain the water points. This is still a bit easier than the intermediate USPA rules, as we want to remain inviting to the 9 cell pilot, but certainly want to stay challenging for the amateurs who are getting up there in the ranks. In 2010 the top placing amateur, AND the top placing pro will have their registration, competition jumps and hotel covered for 2010 USPA nationals Looks like it's going to be a great season next year. Once again, I encourage everyone interested in swooping to attend, no matter your location, it's going to be a hell of a year! For official updates or news, visit http://flcpa.livejournal.com/ Blues. IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NexGenSkydiver 0 #2 May 20, 2009 Have you had to talk to al about what I suggested in raeford as far as the scoring and what not? As far as the ams go how are you going to judge the 5 foot water gates? Sounds a lot more work.....I thought they would be fine with the tens if the scoring is done as I suggested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #3 May 20, 2009 QuoteAs far as the ams go how are you going to judge the 5 foot water gates? Sounds a lot more work..... Not really. You have to have a water gate judge for the pro's so now instead of the judge looking at the water, they're looking at the top of the gate. I dont think it's any more work at all. I was surprised about the ZA changes (I didn't know any were in the works) but I like them. IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NexGenSkydiver 0 #4 May 21, 2009 Well, I suggested that the pros be scored as one group and the ams as their own group. This means it would be like a pro meet and am meet being held at the same time. As far as the competitors go this wont affect us. Also, it would mean that there would be 6 100 handed out to the pros and 6 100 to the ams. I think this is a better idea because then each will be able to see how they compare against the catagory in which they are competing. Then the top 5 places overall from the meet would be paid out. I brought this up to eric florio, who is doing all the entering of the scores, and he informed me it wouldnt take at most 5 minutes to do it this way. Just curious if others would support this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #5 May 21, 2009 We started getting an unofficial "Pro" score sheet after Atlanta meet by removing the Ams from the spreadsheet to show just the Pro scoring. That's a matter of one minute and actually, to me, is a better representation of how we did in our "divisions", so to speak. But the extra break down of payouts, prizes and all that... might prove too much logistical work for the judges. I think changing the speed course to match the length of the Pro/USPA/FAI/IPC course is a big step towards leveling out the field and giving Ams a better challenge, which is what it's all about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NexGenSkydiver 0 #6 May 21, 2009 Extra break down of payment? Top 5 overall at every meet. Not top 5 pros and top 5 ams. Same number of places would be handed out as was at Raeford. The only difference between the scores now and my idea is that there would be two different sheets. One with just the pros scores on it and one with just the ams scores on it. Meaning there would be 6 100 handed out for pros and 6 for ams. Basically it would be like two seperate meets run together, and the top 5 scores overall would get paid. That way the pros see how they compared to the other pros and the ams see how they do compared to the ams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #7 May 21, 2009 i guess misunderstood you about the prizes, my bad. as far as separate score sheets... Yeah basically thats the idea. we've been doing that last couple of meets. Might as well make it official, i agree. If this happens, we can still make the Overall standings score available too, just for the hell of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JGarcia 0 #8 May 22, 2009 QuoteBasically it would be like two seperate meets run together, As far as I understand it, that's the whole point of giving the Amateur pilots a handicap (10' gates, etc)...so that it's NOT like having two separate meets and so Amateur pilots can judge their performance directly against the Pros. I see what you're saying, and logistically it wouldn't be hard to do at all, but then it would, in fact, be two separate meets running concurrently...not one competition with the Pro's competing alongside, and against the Amateur Pilots.Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #9 May 22, 2009 Quotethe whole point of giving the Amateur pilots a handicap (10' gates, etc)...so that it's NOT like having two separate meets and so Amateur pilots can judge their performance directly against the Pros That was the original intent, league is aimed towards the Ams, to get them into CP competition scene and make it less intimidating. But hearing someone who's barely making 10 foot gates and flying a short speed course brag how he beat the speed record makes me smile. Then again, some of the amateurs these days are as good or better than some of the Pros. I think they need (and want) a solid challenge, not a "hand out" top 5-10 placement. Their goal is to get better, learn as much as they can and compete as Pros next year, not compare themselves to Pro scores based on huge handicaps, no? Especially with the new Speed score changes and its weigh in the total score overall. But i agree that having Ams compare their scores against a handicapped Pro score is a positive thing, something that will help keep them interested in competing and growing. So that's why i think we can and should keep the overall score but still have the two separate score sheets/divisions for Pros and Ams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
berchtoldaj 0 #10 May 22, 2009 Both sides of this idea are valid and have merit. With some competitors at a higher skill level and others just starting out, the certainly need for 2 different classes and/or a handicap system. I see one of the goals being to have everyone competing togther and being scored together. This helps breed the group environment that many have come to enjoy at the meets. If an Ama beats a Pro with the current handicap rules, he had to work damn hard for it. He should be proud of it, enjoy the acolades of his peers(both Pro and Ama), and have the opportunity to enjoy that moment of glory. I think seperating the Pro's and Amatuers takes something away from that moment. It creates the opportunity for the Pro to say"well you didn't really beat me, he're our seperate score sheets" Shielding the Ego of our "pro" competitor and lessening the great performance of our Amateur. It potentially fosters the idea that we are seperate crowds, which I don't think we are. We'e one big happy family. The Am who has the opportunity to get jazzed becuse is competing WITH Brian McNenny or Ian Bobo or Kaz Sheeky is being treated as an up and coming peer not a lower class citizen. There may be a point where the league gets big enough to start having sperate pro and ama events, courses, etc. But I don't think we should jump the gun on that one. I see it as more than just printing out an extra piece of paper.************ Watch out for planters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #11 May 22, 2009 QuoteWe'e one big happy family. The Am who has the opportunity to get jazzed becuse is competing WITH Brian McNenny or Ian Bobo or Kaz Sheeky is being treated as an up and coming peer not a lower class citizen. one big happily f-d up family may be. I'm just glad i'm normal, but i cant say that for the rest of these guys... BTW, i get... ahem... "jazzed" when i compete with McSissy and Kaz and even Drennan. Yet i still get treated like a lower class citizen. WTF, over? I have a pro card! So in closing, can i just have a separate score sheet next year? With just me on it? That way i can always be number 1. Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
berchtoldaj 0 #12 May 22, 2009 I think we can do that for you Mike, In fact, I went ahead and worked them out already. they're attached************ Watch out for planters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #13 May 22, 2009 damn mike, you're speed kinda sucks but going 700+ feet isn't too bad. good job in 2010Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JGarcia 0 #14 May 22, 2009 Quote This helps breed the group environment that many have come to enjoy at the meets. If an Ama beats a Pro with the current handicap rules, he had to work damn hard for it. He should be proud of it, enjoy the acolades of his peers(both Pro and Ama), and have the opportunity to enjoy that moment of glory. I think seperating the Pro's and Amatuers takes something away from that moment. I agree 100%...that's one of the biggest reasons I started competing. Well, that, and Ian Drennan and Angela wouldn't stop ribbing me about it one drunken New Years Eve @ Z-Hillz.And Mike, you're always #1 in my book... and sometimes, when the score sheet says "0" next to your name (and my name dring the last meet), just remember, it's chronologically even better than 1! 0....1.....2......3, etc, etc. Hey Al... did your Sushi make it through the morning? That was some good stuff! And my back didn't feel so bad after Jay Mo told me how many times he's torn/twisted/messed up his body in the name of swoop! Cheers!Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #15 May 22, 2009 wow. 5 perfect meets! I think got a zero in one round, but that was the highest score, so i still got 100 points!! Yes! I am fucking winning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #16 May 22, 2009 After some thought I've come to the conclusion that I believe, especially with the latest rule changes in place, that the Pro's and Am's should continue to compete as-is without seperate divisions at each comp. I think Jairo and Al's posts are spot on. ......You can still seperate Shatalov though Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites