mindcool 0 #1 October 15, 2006 hello all I am a light jumper with 136lbs exit weight. i got 500+ jumps and jumping my spectre 120 for the past 50 jumps (had a sabre2 135 before of that).i'm thinking about going towards eliptical canopy. i belive that the right thing to do is taking eliptical at the same size (120). my question is what is the best first eliptical canopy considering i wingload it 1.13 ? from what i understood wingloading is very low for those canopies to stay in a dive (low recovery arc) i'd appriciate your comments Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #2 October 16, 2006 I was jumping a vengeance 135 at 1.15-1.2 until last weekend, I had some issues with the opening (I don't think the canopy was made for such a low WL) but once the canopy is open it flies great and is very swoopable. That said, the only reason I didn't go smaller was because I was considering the canopy for wingsuit jumps. You may want to get a 107 anyway... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindcool 0 #3 October 16, 2006 yeah that a posibility... it's just that i have only about 50 jumps on my 120 and never jumped an eliptical before. wouldnt it be a big step to go eliptical and downsizing as well? and even if i do, should i get a katana107? crossfire2-109? stilletto107? (i heard that with stilletto recovery arc is short and i have to start high speed landing approach low) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amir1967 0 #4 October 16, 2006 QuoteI was jumping a vengeance 135 at 1.15-1.2 until last weekend, I had some issues with the opening (I don't think the canopy was made for such a low WL) but once the canopy is open it flies great and is very swoopable. That said, the only reason I didn't go smaller was because I was considering the canopy for wingsuit jumps. You may want to get a 107 anyway... Hi Sas Is the opening issues are due to wing-load or the Vengeance. AmirAM67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #5 October 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteI was jumping a vengeance 135 at 1.15-1.2 until last weekend, I had some issues with the opening (I don't think the canopy was made for such a low WL) but once the canopy is open it flies great and is very swoopable. That said, the only reason I didn't go smaller was because I was considering the canopy for wingsuit jumps. You may want to get a 107 anyway... Hi Sas Is the opening issues are due to wing-load or the Vengeance. Amir The combination is my guess. I've seen other vengeance canopies with similar wingloads open the same, ie airlock-by-airlock and reeaally slow, sometimes searching too much as an uneven number of cells are open on both sides. Never had to chop it or had any serious problems with it, it just opens weird sometimes The 120 I jumped (WL ~ 1.3-1.4 with lead) opened better, still nice and slow but 'normal' ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #6 October 16, 2006 try it in the same size and then think about it...also talk to your local canopy people about what to expect/shoudl they like the idea the problem with goign smaller for smaller people has been discussed many times before... smaller canopies have short lines, shortlines turns into a lot of diffreent flight charecteristics... so for instance a person flying a 107 at 1.4 lbs/sq ft will see different flight charecteristics than a person flying a 150 at 1.4 lbs / sq ft shorter lines at same wingloading = faster to respond things happen a lot faster even at same wingloading... just think about that when jumping that 120 and then if you demo the 107 think about it as well... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindcool 0 #7 October 16, 2006 well that make sense... so if i do take something 120 and stay at 1.13 wingloading maybe it's better to take a canopy that is built for those kind of wingloadings. i.e safire2, sabre2 etc... would it be a wiser step? (but if i look at it that way then even a 107 i'd load 1.27... so go to another tapred-107 and so on...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #8 October 16, 2006 try the safire2 and the sabre2 in the smaller size but still keep in mind that they will still act more responsively... its funny I fly canopies in that range with no problem at that point, you wont really notice too much of a performance increase in the ellipticals till around 1.4 and then they really start to take off in the 1.7-1.9 range Just be careful with the smaller sizes and low weight right now :-P SInce you are in Israel, go talk to Yanir(spelling) or Inon about your canopy issues...they might have a better idea of your ability and where you should go. And tell Yanir that Skyjunky from Sussex said whats up while you do it. Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #9 October 16, 2006 Im gonna take your question apart into two pieces. First the elliptical part. There are a WIDE variety of semi and fully elliptical canopies out there. So , it stands to reason, that there will be a WIDE variety of performance between those canopies. Just from what you have said and your profile, I dont know that you should cosider the Katana or other similar canopies. Even at lower wingloadings, they react with a swiftness you MIGHT not be ready to handle. I personally love the Nitro, I put about 600 jumps on one. One of those jumps put me in surgery. Not the canopy's fault. Mine. I would compare the Nitro to say a Stilleto. Ive jumped both and my personal opinion: Nitro for the following reasons: Openings-awsome, Packing-easy, HMA linset-never out of trim, Excellent slow flight-for those off landings, Customer Service. If you are lookng at a new canopy in your progression, I encourage you to talk to your instructors and fellow jumpers. Demo, Demo, Demo. Find what works for you. Wingloading: I am only beginning to grasp the effects of wingloading on a given wing, but I have seen first hand what a lightly loaded elliptical can do if you make a mistake. Talk to your instructors about your choices, work with someone qualified to assist you in your canopy progression. This means having someone watch you in flight and help evaluate your current abilities. I would think that at your current jump numbers, and your desire to go elliptical that you are intersted in swooping. If so, what have you done with your current canopy to prepare for that? I am a firm beliver that before you trasition to another canopy you should be able to fly your current canopy to its limitations before you move on. just my .02. Be safe.Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sysop 0 #10 October 16, 2006 Quote5) Parachutes perform differently at different wingloadings. The lighter the wingloading, the slower it will fly. This means that the internal pressurization of the wing will be less on larger canopies. In general, lightly loaded parachutes experience more small collapses than heavily loaded ones. Not only is there less internal pressure in the wing, but the dynamic forces area also less with decreased airspeed. This means that the average line tension tends to be less on a lightly loaded wing, and the wing tends to have a increased propensity to surge forward in the window when flying at low airspeeds. This is why very small, highly loaded parachutes tend to experience fewer distortions, especially when flown at high speed. Flying at high speed increases the drag of the canopy itself, relative to the jumper, so the relative wind holds the parachute back in the window and at a higher angle of attack. This is why I make carving, high "G", high speed turns to final approach heading, especially in turbulence. The speed actually reduced the chances of a collapse by increasing the forces that keep the parachute at the end of the lines. I am literally increasing my wingloading by flying fast and at high "G's", and the increases velocity reduces the amount of time that I fly in bad air. I am not saying that you should downsize just to increase your stability. I am saying that until your skills and knowledge are ready to fly smaller, faster parachutes, you should stay out of the sky until the winds come down. I still haven't been hurt by a jump I didn't do. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=619www.speedflying.ru Mountian Fly School Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
