CANOPY TRANSITION

[ianmdrennan 2]

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not by people that don't know him and are just adhering to numbers they believe to be all important.

Ummm yeah - those fatality statistics don't mean a thing. I mean almost none of the fatalities in 2002 year were in the 300-500 jump range and under small canopies..... Riiiiiiiiight.

I enjoy not being regulated. To keep that freedom, we "experienced" jumpers have a RESPONSIBILITY to guide those working their way up, otherwise it'll just end up being another freedom that is stripped away because of peoples irresponsibility.

Blue skies
Ian

Fly your canopy....don't let you canopy fly you

Performance Designs Factory Team

[12bhi 0]

After careful consideration,after absorbing the
responses to my question,I will not buy anything
smaller than a 150 main.....I appreciate all the help
guys>>>Jason

[RozeAY 0]

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I enjoy not being regulated. To keep that freedom, we "experienced" jumpers have a RESPONSIBILITY to guide those working their way up, otherwise it'll just end up being another freedom that is stripped away because of peoples irresponsibility.

I don't disagree with you. That is very important. But there is a big difference between people on a forum telling a guy he shouldn't jump a canopy when all you know is his number of jumps, his exit weight, and the canopy. I feel this is a decision that should be left to him and his instructors who can watch him fly and help him with his downsizing progression. Flat out telling him he shouldn't jump that canopy is a little extreme considering all you know are his numbers. My point was just that jumping a 135 with under 75 jumps is a possibility as long as it is done carefully and with help from experienced pilots.

You obviously feel that this canopy should not be jumped with under 50-75 jumps and that is fine. I think it can be if done carefully and that is just my opinion.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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You obviously feel that this canopy should not be jumped with under 50-75 jumps and that is fine. I think it can be if done carefully and that is just my opinion.

It's ok to disagree. Debate is generally what helps us find the correct answer. In response the to 50-75 range....well....all I'm trying to say is that while, yes, they will "probably be ok", is it worth the probably? Maybe I'm getting to conservative but I'd rather people err on the side of caution. That is all.

Thanks for your input.

Blue skies and safe swoops,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[listo 0]

I agree 100% Ian. Caution will lead to a long life with fewer broken bones or messed up backs.

Live today as tomorrow may not come

[listo 0]

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After careful consideration,after absorbing the
responses to my question,I will not buy anything
smaller than a 150 main.....

Well, I personally think you are doing yourself a great justice with that decision. From my calculations, you will still be flying a 150 @ 1:1. Just remember that no matter what you get, you need to always ask questions and be open to advice. I have just under 700 jumps and I frequently ask questions to people that know more than I do. Just ask Jim Slaton or Chuck Blue, I have bugged those guys to death.

Good luck brother and remember to keep that canopy over your head for at least another 200 jumps..........it keeps the scalp from getting sunburned

Live today as tomorrow may not come

[wmw999 2,149]

If you ask questions on a forum, you'll get answers tailored to the general public. If someone expects personalized answers taking into account his particular skills, then they're likely to be disappointed.

That said, if you're giving somewhat generalized advice, it's better to err on the conservative side. Not to cover your own ass, but because more people get hurt under slightly too small a canopy than slightly too large a canopy.

And many people who jump slightly too large a canopy (note: not a lot, not student-sized) end up discovering that there was a lot more fun to be had with a larger canopy after all.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[12bhi 0]

Well I went and did what I said I wasnt going to...
I purchased a used rig with a tri-135....Sweet looking
rig,but I'm not going to touch it until I jump the hell
out of a rental 150,and absolutely feel safe jumping'
it...I wanted to purchase something slightly bigger,
but I couldnt pass up this deal....I'm open for the
negative comments I know I will receive,but if there
is some positive ones,I'll take them too....
Peace>>Jason

[RichM 0]

You're profile says uyou have 8 jumps. I know you're talking about jumping a demo 150 for a while, but given that you bought this I wonder how long a "while" is so.... even though you will only be loading this canopy at a little over 1:1 make sure you get a full briefing on it. Two important things change (there are other changes but these two are the most significant)

(1) Unlike student canopies this one will stall, make sure you find the seperate flare and stall points on the canopy. Do not push the brakes to the bottom of your reach when flaring, the canopy will stall and you will fall out of the sky and break.

(2) Also unlike student canopies if you try to turn by burying a toggle to the end of your reach there is a possibillity you will induce line twists. The canopy is only 135 so much narrower than student kit, and it turns much faster. If the canopy turns faster than you in a given manouvre then line twists result. Line twists are almost guaranteed if you steer one way then quickly steer the other way. Avoid line twists below your hard deck where it is too low to cutaway(with your experience I would suggest your hard deck is about 1800ft?) as landing with line twists may well break you.

Get a briefing, deploy way high, learn the flare and stall points. If you have the height actually stall the canopy to find out what happens. If you have the height turn violently to see how much input is too much. Get a briefing.

Did I say get a briefing enough?

If you take care, learn and respect the damage it can cause you, you should be fine.

Rich M

[ianmdrennan 2]

Well,

Here goes the good, the bad and the ugly.


You can take a horse to the water but you can't make it drink.

Make sure you have medical insurance and I sure hope I never have to read about you in parachutist.

Whomever sold you that canopy....well....I certainly hope that your actions under a canopy they sold you never have to weigh on their mind. It's their responsibility as well to make sure they aren't selling something totally inappropriate.

I've seen NUMEROUS cases of people hurting themselves under gear they bought before they were ready cause "it was a good deal" - don't be another!



ASK people at the dz (who actually know what they're talking about) to watch you fly the canopy when you begin to use it.

LISTEN to what they have to say - if someones says you're going to hurt yourself...well you probably are so don't go all gung-ho.

REMEMBER landing into the wind isn't worth dying for. If you're ever faced with that decision make SURE you have enough altitude to complete the turn, otherwise prepare appropriately.

PRACTISE flat turns, toggle turns, harness turns, riser turns so you can apply that knowledge appropriately and instinctively if you're ever in trouble.

FLY your canopy until you have completely stopped. Just cause you can put your feet down doesn't mean you should (Most people stop flying their canopy the second their feet touch the ground).

SET yourself goals for progressions. I.e. Accuracy, consistency, etc

PFL if you have to....it could save a lot more than you realize. Can't jump for a while if you break your legs (or worse)


Good luck and be careful.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[listo 0]

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I'm not going to touch it until I jump the hell
out of a rental 150

Brother, I am really scared for you right now. Just remember this, it takes even the best canopy pilots well over 100 jumps to "master" any canopy. I would suggest putting that canopy in a safe with a lock that requires proof of jumps and experience to open it.

Your chances of getting hurt on a 135 are really high if you jump it with less than a total of 100 jumps even at your wing loading. It doesn't matter what your wing loading is. Smaller square footage canopies are higher performance regardless of wing loadings. Please keep this in mind. A triathlon 135 @ 1.0 will respond faster than a triathlon 150 @ 1.0.

Unfortunately there tends to be a great misconception that wing loading vs experience is the only thing that needs to be considered when a person is considering down sizing.

Some of the things you need to consider are:

Dropzone altitude-altitude above sea level (MSL altitude)

Safe alternate landing areas around the DZ or any DZ you may be jumping at.

Hazards around your DZ or any DZ you may find yourself jumping at.

Wing loading experience.

Controlability of what you are currently flying. (If you can't land it downwind or crosswind in 15 mph winds, you don't need to downsize) DO NOT GO OUT AND ATTEMPT DOWNWIND LANDINGS

Accuracy with your current canopy- Being able to land it ON TARGET every time. If you can't, then you don't need to downsize.

Please put that "weapon" away and don't let it tempt you until you are WAY PAST READY TO JUMP IT. If you jump it "when you are ready", you might get hurt.

It is common knowledge that jumpers with less than 300 jumps are the most dangerous not only to themselves, but to others as well. Canopies can turn into weapons in less than a second. Be smart and stay healthy/alive.

Listo

Live today as tomorrow may not come

[12bhi 0]

Yes I know I jumped the gun on my purchase,but
truthfull I will not jump this rig until
I'm absolutely qualified....I know for a fact it will be
sitting in my closet this jump season,while I'm at the
dz,gaining the necessary experience to jump this rig.
I know I should have held off and bought a rig
with a main that is more suitable for my experience,
but I guess I got caught in the trap of looking to far in the future....I really appreciate the concern for my safety,and believe me,my concern is the same.It may not appear that way,by me goin out and buying
something that I'm presently and in the near future not capable of but I will learn to fly this rig whatever
it takes # of jumps etc.Really I'm a very safe minded
person.In my line of work,mistakes have to be an
absolute minimum.Otherwise co workers or myself
will become human fireballs.I know I cant compare my line of work to the mechanics of skydiving,but I
just want you all to know that my intent is not to push the envelope in anyway,swooping etc.The skydive alone is enough to satisfy me.
Peaceful blue ones Jay

[RichM 0]

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It is common knowledge that jumpers with less than 300 jumps are the most dangerous not only to themselves, but to others as well.

My understanding is that statistically the area of highest risk is 300-600 jumps; when jumpers think they know everything and painfully find out they don't. 12bhi may be moving into this area a little early though

Rich M

[JJohnson 0]

You are going to be fine amigo. A Tri is a 7 cell, real forgiving canopy. Go easy and you will be fine. If you look at the wingloading chart for the Tri, you will notice that you are not loading it even close to heavy. If anything you are underloading it. It will be a great canopy for you, so long as you go easy and practise common sense.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"