Using toggles out wide affect surf?

[RichM 0]

I am learning to swoop - have done about 200 swoops, mostly on a Sabre 120, but recently swapped to a Crossfire 119 (and love it). I bought the Pond Swoop 2001 video and watched it several times. Sadly I can't really work out the finer details of what the best swoopers are doing with the canopy and risers/toggles.
But I did notice that a lot of them flared with the toggles out wide almost at arm stretch. This clearly induces the rear risers apart quite significantly and I figure this has 2 effects on the canopy by shifting the position of the the attachment links.
a) The links are lower thus pulling the C & D lines down and causing the rear half of the canopy to deflect down. I figure from my simple brain that this would add to the lift but produce less drag than just using the tail, so result in a slightly longer swoop.
b) With the link being pulled apart the rear half of the canopy will be flattened out a little. Again my simple brain suggests this would result in more lift being generated straight up, improving the effeciency of the flare and so longer swoops.
Can some of you swoop monsters (no offence intended) comment on my observations, add further info, suggest alternatives, correct my assumptions, just straight laugh at my pathetic attempts at thinking :)
Cheers, bsbd
Rich M

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

You are right on the money. With standard risers, flaring out to the side will do exactly what you said: give you the benefit of rear riser input without actually "pulling" on them. I was a staunch proponent of tripple risers for over a decade and still have them on one of my rigs, but I have a very-short set of standard risers on my competition cobalt 75 now and rear riser it about half the time. Even when I don't, I always flare out and back anyway while leaning WAY out front so as to get that "free" rear riser action.
Chuck
My webpage HERE

[Jussi 0]

i asked the almost same question couple of years ago from John LeBlanc from Performance Designs, and here is some his writings....

me asking:
In your opinion does third riser setup have ANY effect in
in canopy flare? i have watched people landing and noticed
that when people flare(using regular)rear risers are pulled
by the control line, does this effect flare?
John:
"Yes, it effects the flare. I believe that third riser had a benefit on the very
old nine cells, particularly the old Glidepath canopies. On modern ellipticals,
I believe it is of benefit to have the regular rear riser distorted during the
flare. This helps to flatten the trim in the center of the canopy, which helps
it contribute more to the total lift. Third risers do not do this, so they
center cell stays trimmed steep, to the detriment to the efficiency."
Hope it help...:)

[RichM 0]

Thanks for the info guys.
Chuck, does the head forward arms back style improve the surf? From my above thinking the rear risers in this position would not be spread apart so the rear of the caniopy wouldn't be flattened, and with the rear risers pulled back and down wouldn't that actually pull the rear of the canopy down but in effect deflect the rear of the canopy up? (I'm struggling to visualize this one, my poor brain I watched the vid again and found someone using that exact style and it sure seems to work well for them (is that you?).