Cobalt openings

[bobsoutar 0]

Anyone know what openings are like on a Cobalt at sub-terminal (ie a hop and pop). Friend of mine has ordered one (loading at 1.75) and wants to know.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

I'm pretty sure this has been covered at 'Swooping and canopy control'. Did you do a search there?

[zyzko 0]

As Erno said, this has been covered many times, do a search in the forums.

My experience (lowest exit with my Cobalt 95 loaded at about 1,6 is 2300 feet) is that Cobalt doesn't take so much altitude when opening at sub-terminal. No worries, I do hop'n'pops all the time from 3300 feet with up to 7-10 second delays and I'm always under fully flying canopy over 2000 feet.

-Kari

[JJohnson 0]

In general the Cobalt opens pretty quick, and as of yet I have not been slammed or had a prolonged snivel on a sub terminal opening. I even use a pilot chute larger than what Atair suggests and I pack the canopy real loose. Tail is not rolled much, I don't push the nose in either. I think the openings on the Cobalt are awesome. At terminal I can get a nice soft 500 foot opening and maybe 700 to 800 at sub-terminal....just slightly longer than terminal.

JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[coho21 0]

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nice soft 500 foot opening

D wha happen?? Is that even possible? It sort of sounds like an oxymoron to me?

J
YSD#0009

[PhreeZone 15]

Very possible... mine did that all the time too a nice soft 500-600 foot real snivel. I'm yet to ever find a canopy that goes more then 800 in a snivel. Even the 800 footers are hard to find most times. The lightnings I was jumping took about 100 feet to inflate. Even my spectre never went much past 600 feet. On video its about 2.5-3 seconds for a full canopy on both the Spectre and the Cobalt.

Anyone that swears that have have 1000+ openings every jump I don't even take serious on their openings any more. To have an opening like that you are in snivel for over 7 seconds since its slowing you down the whole time. Any one that rides something out for 7 full seconds is probally under a streamer.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[JJohnson 0]

I base this by my Protrack and by watching my wrist mount. I got curious how many feet I was burning up during the opening sequence. So the last few jumps, I dumped with my altimeter in my face and watched through to being under a fully inflated canopy. I was getting an average of about 500 feet. I know this has room for error, but its gotta be close. Compare this to the Crossfire I got rid of and I swear....sorry Phree....that I was burning a grand. If I kept that canopy I would have had to go with a smaller slider.
If you want to see a really freaky opening, try a Samurai. That work of art opens like...right now and is so soft as to not be believed. I was in awe of the openings on it. It would not suprise me to see a 300 foot opening on it and soft as a prom queen's thighs. Anyone else got experience on a Samurai? I only got a few jumps in on one, but I was damn impressed by it.
JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[PhreeZone 15]

The true test is to video the jump and opening and time it. I was surprized to say the least. Opening I swore under canopy were 5 seconds were only about 3-3.5.

And yes the Sam is an open now but not too hard canopy. I've got a Jedei now thats just as nice as the Sam, execept its a pocket slider so its even nicer

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Craig 0]

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The true test is to video the jump and opening and time it. I was surprized to say the least. Opening I swore under canopy were 5 seconds were only about 3-3.5.

But..But I SWEAR I had a 1000 footer yesterday. I was getting worried but I seen 3 center cells and a slider and it opened as I was about to "help" it with rear risers. After the next load up and we got on the ground, Nati was like "I seen you open and Damn I thought my Stilletto sniveled!" Gotta stop pushing that nose back into the center of the pack job!

[freeflyanvil 0]

>Anyone that swears that have have 1000+ openings every jump I don't even take >serious on their openings any more.
First rig I got had a sabre170 with about 1000 jumps on it, and a pocket slider. I swear dude, the thing was like, 700 - 1000 feet every time (yes, a fricken' sabre). I dont know why you'd think it's hard to believe people have 1000' openings.
Samurai? you guys are right on about that. Seems really quick, but ohhh so soft.

Vid
"stons fal, evrysing fals, but doesnt on purpos change its flite pas an positioning..."

[Craig 0]

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I dont know why you'd think it's hard to believe people have 1000' openings.

Samurai? you guys are right on about that. Seems really quick, but ohhh so soft.

I think alot has to do with temperal? distortion. It seems like you are under the inflating canopy forever at times. Of course that is not to say that nobody ever has 1000 foot openings.

FWIW the Lotus has openings like the Samurai, they were not uncomfortable but I personally did not care for them.

[diver123 0]

Yup. I used to have a sabre 170 loaded at about 1.3. Canopy had less than 120 jumps on it and was smacking the crap out of me so I had a local rigger put two pockets on my slider (one at the front and one at the back). Granted I don't have the video on hand (I'm trying to dig it up for you skeptics), but I did also track it with the alti. The rigger specifically asked me to record it to make sure the two pockets were going to be safe. I dumped it right at 4 (had the pilot chute in my hand from 4.5 waiting) and as the end cells finished inflating my alti read right at 3k. No shit. I personally welcomed the opening, but when I sold the rig some two months later, the buyer immediately had the pockets taken off. He cited "discomfort" while watching the altitude slip away... So it is possible. Not necessarily safe, but possible.

"pull high! It's lower than you think..."

[Craig 0]

Remember, it is almost certain you alti is lagging a little during freefall, while it would not be once under canopy. Question is how much (I remember such a discussion a while ago). I am going to guess the lag is about 100 to 200 feet

[alan 1]

Quote

If you want to see a really freaky opening, try a Samurai. That work of art opens like...right now and is so soft as to not be believed. I was in awe of the openings on it. It would not suprise me to see a 300 foot opening on it and soft as a prom queen's thighs. Anyone else got experience on a Samurai? I only got a few jumps in on one, but I was damn impressed by it.

I wrote a rather extensive evaluation of it last year. I think you may still be able to find it on this site somewhere. Great canopy and great openings.

alan

[alan 1]

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it and was smacking the crap out of me so I had a local rigger put two pockets on my slider (one at the front and one at the back). Granted I don't have the video on hand (I'm trying to dig it up for you skeptics),

Most of us skeptics aren't referencing a canopy that has been modified to such an extent, just a stock version of any of the popular canopies in use today. 1000' openings are a rare exception for sport canopies and yours would fall into that category, especially since you admit it was a smacker and then you had it modified. As Phree has pointed out, get video and time it. Has anyone else noticed that every time this has come up here, not one manufacturer has posted anything to support the 1000' opening claims? Not even the ones that like to promote the soft opening canopies they sell? Dan Preston from Atair claims his canopies open soft and are freefly safe. He posts here often with technical data. Nothing from him on the subject, and judging from the posts here by Cobalt owners, they do open soft as a general rule. I talked to John LeBlanc about it once quite awhile ago and I think I even posted a cut and paste of parts of an e-mail he sent me. He basically said most claims of 1000' openings are exaggerated and on the rare occasions that they do get a canopy back because it opens slow and his test jumpers confirm it, their comment is usually something like "what are they complaining about and do they want to sell it?"

BTW, unless your local rigger met some very specific requirements under the FARs, his modification to your main canopy was illegal. Anyone can make a main and jump it, but only a master rigger or the manufacturer can peform an alteration.

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The rigger specifically asked me to record it to make sure the two pockets were going to be safe.

That is probably why that rule is in place.

alan

[diver123 0]

Understood, and agreed. However, a quick note about the rigger; It was not a careless thing that he did for me. It was completely my decision and I understood the risks. Based on that, I say no harm no foul... No need to start getting all serious about things. Let's just leave this one alone.

"pull high! It's lower than you think..."

[PhreeZone 15]

Actually... if the rigger is performing illegal mods then there is a potential issue there.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[cobaltdan 0]

>Anyone that swears that have have 1000+ openings every jump I don't even take >serious on their openings any more.


check out:

http://www.extremefly.com/aerodynamics/canopies/tandem.html

and pay attention to the time code.


(note the c350 was designed to open slower than our smaller cobalts as the hard deck is higher for tandems)

sincerely,

dan

Daniel Preston
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[alan 1]

Quote

Understood, and agreed. However, a quick note about the rigger; It was not a careless thing that he did for me. It was completely my decision and I understood the risks. Based on that, I say no harm no foul...

Yes, I agree, no harm...no foul. I wonder if the rigger understood the risk he was taking.

Quote

No need to start getting all serious about things.

I wasn't trying to be too serious and I'm not very good at clicking on all the goofy faces, but this forum is for the exchange of information and I thought it was important to point this detail out. You'd be surprised at how many riggers are out there that would not even realize they are risking their ticket and perhaps a lawsuit by doing this.

When I was a kid palying with BB guns, my mom would say, "Yes, it's all fun and games until somebody looses an eye." I wonder what she was trying to teach me.

alan

[alan 1]

Quote

>Anyone that swears that have have 1000+ openings every jump I don't even take >serious on their openings any more.


check out:

http://www.extremefly.com/aerodynamics/canopies/tandem.html

and pay attention to the time code.


(note the c350 was designed to open slower than our smaller cobalts as the hard deck is higher for tandems)

Dan, I think anyone who has been around for a while will agree that the new breed of tandem canopies takes longer to open (although I have video of several opening in 2 sec flat....main, not reserve), but the focus of the threads on this topic has usually been on sport canopies. You are talking about a special use canopy designed to take longer. Do you have any links with a standard Cobalt showing them to "consistently" take a thousand feet or more to open? And let's not forget, some of these claims are for 1000' "snivels", not the whole opening.

alan

[grasshopper 0]

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if the rigger is performing illegal mods

you people are all making one big assumption without finding out the facts of this case. this rigger who installed the pocket slider is in fact a master rigger.

________________________________________________________
Abbie drove me to Idaho and all I got was this lousy sigline

[cobaltdan 0]

hi alan,

with our staged opening technology i can engineer a canopy to take however long to open as is desired.

sport cobalts avarage 800'. the tandem was designed for double that.

i mearly point this out as from the thread it sounds like some do not believe it possible.

------

"When I was a kid palying with BB guns, my mom would say, "Yes, it's all fun and games until somebody looses an eye." I wonder what she was trying to teach me.
alan

my mom used to say " if all your friends jumped off a bridge would you" and you know what happened to that one...

sincerely,

dan

Daniel Preston
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[alan 1]

Quote

with our staged opening technology i can engineer a canopy to take however long to open as is desired.

sport cobalts avarage 800'. the tandem was designed for double that.

i mearly point this out as from the thread it sounds like some do not believe it possible.

No, I don't think anyone has been saying that 1000' openings are not possible, just rare, especially on canopies that have not been modified or specifally designed to open longer. Your comments seem to confirm that. For quite some time now, I have been attempting to get people here to realize that todays slow opening canopies open in about 600' to 800'. You also seem to be confirming that, with yours' on the longer end of the spectrum. Some open in 400' to 600' and still provide very soft, comfortable openings. Then we get into those who have 1000' "snivels"......consistently no less. They must all be jumping canopies that were designed to take longer than desired to open. Any way, I asked if you had video showing a standard Cobalt consistently taking 1000' to open. I guess that would be a "no" for now.

Hey while I have you, what are your thoughts on using 1/4 to 1/2 brakes while landing in turbulence under a Cobalt?
What kind of factor would wing loading play in the 1.2 to 2.2 range?

Maybe you could start a thread in the canopy forum with your reply.

alan

[alan 1]

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you people are all making one big assumption without finding out the facts of this case. this rigger who installed the pocket slider is in fact a master rigger.

No one made any assumptions. It was pointed out that the FARs specify who can make alterations to a main and that a Master Rigger is included in those who can. It was informational in nature since the original post was unclear. I have run across a surprising number of jumpers and riggers that are unclear on the rules as to who can alter a main canopy. A follow up post clearly said "if" the rigger was performing illegal mods it was an issue.

alan

[Geoff 0]

Bob,

I've done a few hop and pops on my Cobalt (about 1-2 second delay from 2k ish). Seems to take about 400-500 feet to deploy and open - that's the difference between the alti reading on exit and after complete deployment.

Ask me at Nethers if you need more info.

Cheers

Geoff