Canopy choice

[fonz 0]

Hi all.
A friend of mine and I both jump the same canopy (Sabre 170) at roughly the same wing loading (1.0 or maybe 1.1). The only difference is that I only have 19 jumps (2 on the Sabre) and my friend has about 250 (mostly on the Sabre). Now, my friend thinks he's ready for a new canopy. But we disagree on what he should go with. Of course, it's his ass under that canopy, but because he's my friend I want to make sure he makes the right choice.
He wants to get a high(er) performance canopy of the same size as his current Sabre. That would be a Crossfire 169, Stiletto 170 or something similar. He's even looking at a Batwing 171.
I disagree with that. I think such canopies require a higher wing loading in order to achive optimal performance. Therefore, I recommended him to stick with the Sabre (or something similar, e.g. a Safire) and just take it one or two sizes smaller.
In the end, he wants to jump the sub 100 pocket rockets (and let's be honest, so do I) but I think my suggestion of first jumping smaller sized squares and then switching to an elliptical is better than his idea of starting with a large elliptical and then going smaller and smaller.
What do you guys/gals think? Who's right, or doesn't it make any difference?
Alphons
http://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven

[Jimbo 0]

The realistic view is that it's totally up to your friend. Sounds like he knows what he wants and no amount of input from you is going to change it.
Just my $0.02

[Watcher 0]

Just jump what you want and try stuff out, do it conservativly, and listen to your S&TA.
I personally did my first 100 jumps (after the first 15 for on larger stuff b4 i got gear) on a Pro 170 (1.05:1) which is an improved higher performance Sabre, then flew an elliptical at 1.2, then 5 jumps later at 1.35, then 15 jumps later at 1.55:1 on a Stiletto 120 and a Nitron 120 (which is the size i ordered one for). But elliptical is not as radical as it sounds if you treat it with respect. I might add that i did 150 jumps in a 5 month period so i am very current. I would not recommend that progression for someone doing 5-10 jumps a month.
In the end though, forget about sabres. Get a Safire or Sabre2. I had Safires in my Student program and found them easy to land, and flys so much better than squares.
Jonathan
[email protected]
C-31802

[cobaltdan 0]

as far as jumping an elliptical canopy at a light loading, i do not have a problem with this.
in fact i think it can be a very good idea depending on specifics.
i wish i had done this. i instead transitioned quickly pucshing loadings on sabres and then switched to smaller ellipticals. i had to unlearn many bad habits developed from flying the sabre and learn new technique. itr would have been much better to start out on a lightly loaded elliptical .
the idea that ellipicals are inefficient at light loadings is a misconception. a good design elliptical canopy will ALWAYS be more efficient than a square one, at any loading ! if your goal is to jump a pocket rocket, why not perfect your skills on an elliptical at light loadings. even at light loadings ellipicals will require you to develop skills that will directly translate to flying ones at higher loadings. the same can not necessarily be said for squares.
sincerely,
dan

[E150 0]

I see your point. There is no point rushing into one an eliptical. He could go for a 135 non eliptical. But, as stated, its up to him.
Maybe he could get advice from an instructor that knows his canopy skills. If he is ready to make that leap onto an eliptical, then he should go for it, but treat it with respect. Get advice. He should maybe test jump a demo eliptical.

[fonz 0]

Quote

the idea that ellipicals are inefficient at light loadings is a misconception. a good design elliptical canopy will ALWAYS be more efficient than a square one, at any loading ! if your goal is to jump a pocket rocket, why not perfect your skills on an elliptical at light loadings. even at light loadings ellipicals will require you to develop skills that will directly translate to flying ones at higher loadings. the same can not necessarily be said for squares.

So, apparently flying lightly loaded ellipticals isn't as bad as I thought.
Well, thanks to all of you for your advice!
Alphons
http://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven

[Phil 0]

Your friend should test some of the canopies and see what is the best for him. Yes buying a new/used one always means to take money in our hand and put it in someone else's pocket, so make this choice a good one.
Make sure your friend understands the concept, that he should be able to fly his canopy under various conditions and feel safe doing it. The more radical the canopy - the smaller its error margin.
I'm sure he's aware of that and so I guess also smart enough to be wise in his choice.
blue ones
phil