Wind Tunnels A passing fad....part II

[Toobin 0]

I created this post so I could thank freefly steve for his positive post in part I of this most interesting installment, before it got shut down. TY for passing on the good times to your daughter, Steve. Kids are the future of any entity, no matter how you look at it, so its people like steve who have a big say in deciding if the tunnel is a passing fad or not. We all (well most of us) know what tunnel time does for a new skydiver and that's not going to change. It is my humble opinion that as long as there is skydiving, there will also be tunnels and people who will want to go to the tunnel, to get BETTER AT BODYFLIGHT. Maybe because they're a little nervous about the jump. Maybe they are already confident but they want to sharpen their skills a bit so they can focus on the other life-saving aspects of an actual skydive. Any way I look at it, the tunnel can only help you become a better, safer skydiver, and bashing that idea only proves someone's lack of foresight, and/or their ignorance towards the sport. Sometimes people get humbled in the tunnel after the whole "Oh, I dont need an instructor in there with me, I have 3000 jumps!" scenario. Then they see that the tunnel does have something to offer them and stick around, or they get too embarrased by their performance in the tunnel after their comments and never want to go back there again(which is rare), and sometimes end up adopting the whole notion that this tunnel flying isn't skydiving and thats why they sucked and they're goin back to the dropzone. Tunnels arent trying to take over or replace skydiving, they compliment it.
As was painfully clear, JP's theory on tunnel fliers was WAAAY OFF and there was someone there (JR was it?) to correct him by the use of the Derek Cox example, which I believe is to be accurate, and sometimes the truth hurts, and thats ok.
I dont think its easy for anyone to admit when they are wrong.

Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned.
Buddha

Drop that coal, JP lol

[Chipotle 0]

Great post.

To add my own personal testimonial that tunnel flying adds a quick learning curve (affordably) to perfectly compliment skydiving like a simulator for flight training... it works for slow learners too!

You don't have to be a natural flyer like J. Russ or fearless like Derek Cox to benefit greatly from what these tubes have to offer skydivers. When I started instructing at SVCO, I had an embarrassingly low number of jumps. (Think 30ish.) After a two year absence from skydiving but a good handful of hours in the tunnel, my recurrency jump was a successful, safe and fun 3-way sit. Every skydive since working for a tunnel has been an incredibly fulfilling learning experience for me.

Since then, I've been traveling to Eloy as often as I can for some great freeflying. Wanting to be a "well-rounded skydiver," I signed up for a couple one-on-one coaching jumps to translate my tunnel flying into the sky. After two jumps, he wanted to give me my money back. If you want to hear the stories of the looks I get after doing a 4-way HD jump and telling them that it was my 50th skydive or the time I chased some belly-flyers and nailed my first hybrid even though I hadn't flown on my belly in the sky for 3+ years, etc... PM me. Ask anyone around here, I'm a sloooow learner and don't have a lot of actual skydiving experience! But I promise if you make a jump with me, I will do my best and not disappoint.

Wind tunnels are not a wonder pill. It requires hard work, dedication and a good attitude to reap all the great benefits they have to offer. So give it a shot and see what it can do for you too!

[Chipotle 0]

Oh yeah, Stephanie from SVCO will soon help set the women's HD world record in Eloy sometime in March. As talented as she is, I don't think anyone could pull that off without the tunnel.

Like Derek Cox, quite an amazing accomplishment considering she only has a few hundred jumps under her belt.

[virgin-burner 1]

i have maybe 30-40 minutes in the tunnel now. first ten was with a freefly-coach. that went not to bad, it was wall-to-wall. then the other two sessions, one just yesterday and the other the night before, on an open airstream.. the more i do it, the more i suck i think.. gotta RELAX those arms and shoulders..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[diablopilot 2]

You didn't create this thread to thank anyone. You created it because you wanted to comment about me. I shows in the words you write.

I don't know who you are, since you fail to identify yourself.

You have also failed to understand my view, and perhaps that's my fault for not explaining things clearly enough.

I think the Tunnels are here to stay, and they are a great tool. I think they improve a skydiver's performance in the freefall portion of the skydive immensely. Look at the top 4 way teams. Since they have started with the wind tunnels, non-tunnel trained teams can't even stay close.

Tunnels are fun and are crating their own sport, look at the tunnel kids! They have a huge amount of body flight talelnt and skill. Would put me to shame in a competition in the tunnel.

The point I make is they do not make someone a skydiver. They may make a skydiver better.

Skydiving does not make a tunnel flyer. It may make a tunnel flyer better.

People often want to "belong", but sometimes either don't want to, or can't put in the effort to do so.

Wuffos have called themselves skydivers to other wuffos after doing a tandem. They've done the same thing after flying in the tunnel. Skydivers have called themselves BASE jumpers after one jump from the span in WV.

You and I know the difference, but others don't.

Derek Cox IS the perfect example. He's someone who has become proficient in BOTH areas. Skydiver and Tunnel Flyer. He's put in the work. I'm willing to bet that he had to work harder in the areas not covered in tunnel flight to be successful on the HD record, but that his tunnel training assisted him in that endeavor. Kudos to him.

As for JackJR. He is pissed because he had a shortcoming pointed out to him by me. His ego cost him some pride and now he has a vendetta. Hope that goes well for him, as he's the only one twisting himself up about it.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[slotperfect 7]

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I think the Tunnels are here to stay, and they are a great tool. I think they improve a skydiver's performance in the freefall portion of the skydive immensely.

For me, three things in particular make it a great tool: 1) it is more difficult to fly in the tunnel than in actual free fall - training in the more difficult environment makes my performance better when I am in the real environment; 2) it allows for repeated execution of a maneuver to learn it or improve upon it - sharpening it to a well-honed ability; 3) the horizontal spatial reference that provides a need to be balanced and stay in one place - many people believe they are falling "straight down" in free fall when they are not (because they have no spatial reference in the air by themselves.

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The point I make is they do not make someone a skydiver. They may make a skydiver better.

Amen. There are too many elements of the skydive that are missing in the tunnel. Some of them were already mentioned in the other thread - all the way from gearing up to landing. This includes the "big picture" references - the development of that skydiver "sixth sense" that kicks in on occasion and not only keeps us safe but others as well.

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As for JackJR. He is pissed because he had a shortcoming pointed out to him by me. His ego cost him some pride and now he has a vendetta. Hope that goes well for him, as he's the only one twisting himself up about it.

Whatever the reason(s), personal arguments need to be confined to PMs so forwarding conversations such as this one can continue without being clouded.

Arrive Safely

John

[Toobin 0]

WOW buddy, get over yourself. I created this thread because I believe it to be an interesting topic; Tunnel flying a passing fad, as it was put before. I dont believe it to be, and that is what some people here have been tryin to state. Originally i was commenting on an older post about tunnel flight that caught my eye. That other thread got shut down because you made some generalizations about tunnel flyers and you got put in your place by that guy, and THAT pissed you off, plain and simple. He proved a valid point which proved your theory to be incorrect, so you had to go make it personal, in public, as you have with me, maybe because you felt you didnt have a leg to stand on, bringing up my anonimity, as if that had anything to do with anything. I WILL give you this; he picked a hell of an example to compare with. Derek is a dam good flyer.
Your point was well understood, sir. We've all read what you typed. I agree tunnel flying doesnt make a skydiver....I never said that(go read it again). They compliment each other. A good tunnel flyer can focus on the life-saving skills needed to make it back to the ground safely, because he has one less thing to worry about when he steps out of the plane (like being stable). That is all I'm trying to say. That is my agenda...to make people think about safety across the board. Anyone who thinks that tunnel flying doesnt help you be a better, safer skydiver is probably someone who hasnt been to the tunnel. Maybe they did and just didnt like it. They like the thrill of the jump, not this synthetic freefall that keeps you too safe for comfort...
I dont know about anyone else but the possibility of death gives skydiving that certain exitement, does it not? Getting away with it, cheating death!? Thats just my opinion on that.

[TheSecret 0]

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Getting away with it, cheating death!?

Cheating death? What kind of skydiving are you doing?

Life is good

[frost 1]

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Getting away with it, cheating death!?

Cheating death? What kind of skydiving are you doing?

I am going to guess "eXtreme" skydiving?

[slotperfect 7]

Back on topic, please.

Arrive Safely

John