Eule 0 #1 July 18, 2005 Hello all! I started AFF in June, never having skydived (from a plane or in a tunnel) before. Now I'm at 15 jumps, but I've only had a couple of brief flings at level 4. To make a long story short, a big part of my problem is body position and stability. I don't think the visual of "sky - horizon at 45 degree angle - ground - horizon at 45 degree angle the other way - repeat" is a standard part of AFF. :) I had a suspicion that a tunnel might help and after a couple of dives this weekend, my instructors said they thought some tunnel time would be good for me. So, now I'm looking for a tunnel. I have looked on the Web a bit and found where some of them are, but I'm sure I haven't found all of them. My first criterion is that it be within a 2 day drive of Tulsa, Oklahoma. To calibrate this distance, Perris and Orlando both meet this criterion. (Either one would be 2 12-hour days of driving, so an 8 AM tunnel time the morning after I get there wouldn't work, but that afternoon would be OK.) Put another way, this means that pretty much only Oregon, Washington, and the Northeast states north of about Pennsylvania are out. Closer is always better, but I'm willing to drive a little if I need to. My other criteria are not as big to me as the distance one above. One is that it might be a little better if the tunnel is at or near a dropzone. After I get some tunnel time, I might want to go to a dropzone to see if I am really learning what I need to know. Another is that it'd be nice if there is a place to camp at or near the tunnel. Since I'm driving, I can deal with dropzones/campsites that are a little way away from the tunnel. One of my instructors mentioned the tunnel in Perris, one in North Carolina, and one in Tennessee. Looking around the Web, I think he was talking about L1 in Waynesville, NC and Flyaway in Pigeon Forge, TN. In addition to finding a place, I'm also wondering a bit about the procedures. I have read the info on a couple of the Web sites, and I know I will be able to answer some of these questions once I pick a tunnel and talk to them directly, but I'm curious. If there is a "tunnel FAQ" lurking somewhere, you may be able to point me at it and ignore many of these questions. Are the tunnels usually booked up a long time in advance, or is it relatively easy to book a date a week or so away? Assuming it is possible, my timeframe for the tunnel visit is within the next month or so. I understand that for what I'm doing, I will probably buy some chunk of time, and I will fly for 1 or 2 minutes at a time, then rest/wait for several minutes, then fly again. Does this usually continue until I've got all the chunk in, or does it happen that I will fly maybe half the chunk and come back a few hours later or the next day? (I'm pretty sure this also depends on exactly how big of a chunk I buy.) Any ideas on how much time I should be thinking about? I know that 2 minutes is probably not enough and 2 hours is probably too much (besides being just a little bit beyond the budget) but in between I don't know. Is there any special exercise or preparation or something I should practice before I go to the tunnel? Thanks for the help! EulePLF does not stand for Please Land on Face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #2 July 18, 2005 QuoteI have looked on the Web a bit and found where some of them are, but I'm sure I haven't found all of them. Every VWT that is operational or soon to be or was recently, is on Bodyflight Network www.bodyflight.net It also has FAQs, links to relevant sites, and a tunnel flyer directory. Once you choose a tunnel location, you can inquire directly with them about procedure... as with most franchises, SkyVentures generally use the same procedures regardless of the location, while the rest of the VWTs have their own independant way of doing things. And you can cross reference their location with the DZ list on this site, but quickly AAC in North Carolina is near Skydive Carolina, a fabulous liitle gem of a DZ here in the east.. Flyaway PFs closest DZ is Skydive Tennessee in Tullahoma TN, and ASC in Cedartown Georgia, nice little place with great onsite catering!! Obviously SkyVenture Perris is on the beautiful and big DZ skydive Perris! and SkyVenture Orlando is surrounded by DZs Deland, Titusville, Lake Whales, Zephyrhills.. All are excellent candidates The rest of your questions can be answered by the tunnel you choose, to avoid confusion. How much time depends on what you want to accomplish.. I tell people 15 minutes is a good start, but if you would like to take anything back to the sky with some sort of feeling of mastery, 30 minutes is much better. One person can easily do 30 minutes in one day, ideally the tunnel you choose will be able to sell you additional time by the minute (or two) after that if you want and can handle more. Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air, Dawn Suiter PMTS Delegate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcandalysse 0 #3 July 19, 2005 I suggest you read through a bunch of threads in this forum....you probably have by now. Your questions have been discussed many times on dz.com.... have fun, marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #4 July 19, 2005 If you come to sunny Florida, you'll be within an hour and a half of five major DZs: Z-Hills, Lake Wales, Sebastian, Tittisville, and my favorite, DeLand. As far as your tunnel time, the standard is two minutes at a shot and a total of 15-20 mins per session. It's also best to get in two or more sessions, so you can review your video, identify the things you did wrong, or want to do better, and then get back in to work on them. There's lots of people to share time with here in Orlando (sent >>> Paige <<< a message), so it easy to get 10-15 mins out of a half hour block, or 20-30 mins out of a 60 min block. Remember basic coaching is included with the tunnel time and provided by the tunnel employees. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #5 July 19, 2005 Quote There's lots of people to share time with here in Orlando (sent >>> Paige <<< a message), so it easy to get 10-15 mins out of a half hour block, or 20-30 mins out of a 60 min block. Got Time? Share it. Want Time? Find it. I'm not the only one with time listed here so check it all out to see what fits your schedule.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eule 0 #6 July 20, 2005 All, Thanks for the help! Between the replies and reading through the forum a bit (which I should have done before I posted), I think I've got a handle on it now. Now I pretty much need to decide how far I want to drive, set up a time, and do it. I'll report back after my tunnel time. Thanks! Eule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eule 0 #7 August 3, 2005 Quote I'll report back after my tunnel time. And here it is. I decided to wait for my first couple of jumps after the tunnel time so I could tell if it "took". It took. :) A somewhat long trip report follows... After deciding that AAC in Waynesville, NC was about the closest one to me, I booked half an hour on Saturday 23 July. I left Tulsa on Thursday morning, camped out a bit west of Nashville on Thursday night, and got to Waynesville on Friday afternoon. I located the tunnel and then started for the campground, up in Smoky Mountain National Park. The turnoff to the campground is only about a mile from the tunnel, but the road is "interesting" - I was lucky to still have daylight while I drove up there. 10 miles in about 30 minutes, and the paved road ran out after the first 10 minutes. The reward for all this is a beautiful campground with a creek and lots of pine trees that is about 15 degrees F cooler than down in the valley. There were six of about 25 sites left at 19:30 and by about 20:30 it was full. After setting up camp, I ventured back down into the valley to explore. All of this is on the southeast side of the national park, which is touristy, but nothing like the north side of the park (Highway 441 - Gatlinburg - Pigeon Forge - Sevierville). The town of Maggie Valley has some restaurants and chain motels. I went back to the campground and slept in, as my tunnel time wasn't until 4 PM. On Saturday, I went into Waynesville - it seems to be the "big city" with more chain motels, a Big Kmart, etc. After lunch and wandering around downtown Waynesville, it was tunnel time. When I got there, I was met by the gentleman who helped build the building and now runs the motor (whose name may be Dan, but I unfortunately can't remember) and Chris, the owner. John and Dawn were driving in from a long trip and hadn't gotten there yet, so Dan showed us around a bit. Besides myself, there was a father (skydiver) and his 15-year-old son (not yet a skydiver, but had some tunnel time) and another guy who I don't think was a skydiver. Shortly, John and Dawn arrived, and the fun started. John took the four of us into the classroom for a ~15 minute explanation of how to fly in the tunnel. He asked each of us if there was any particular thing we wanted to work on - this is when I told him that I was going through AFF. We got done with the class and moved on to suit up. The jumpsuits, helmets, and goggles were provided. The suit was pretty much like the suits I've been wearing for AFF - not skin-tight but not big and baggy. The main differences between the tunnel suits and the ones I've worn for AFF is that the tunnel suits close with Velcro instead of a zipper and the tunnel suits only have grippers on the hips. The goggles and (open face) helmets were just like I've been using in AFF. A group of more experienced jumpers that came in after me were wearing their own regular skydiving jumpsuits, helmets, goggles, etc and flying just fine with them. The way the tunnel is set up, the air outlet is at ground level and there is a net that is around 50 feet (7 m) square stretched over it about 10 feet (2.5 m) up. You walk out of the second story of the building onto a concrete deck, and then on to the net. The outer part of the net is made up of thick nylon? straps, about 1" (2.5 cm) wide, on about a 4" (10 cm) grid. You can walk on this, but it helps if you spread your feet apart more than normal. In the center, over the air column, there is a 14 foot (4.5 m) square net that is not as heavy as the surrounding net. The center net is more like a volleyball net, made up of relatively thin nylon? cords on about a 4" grid. You can walk on this too, but normally you fly over it. There are some guy ropes in the center that go from the net down to the ground to keep the center net from blowing up too far when the air is on. The edge of the air column is marked on the center net by a circle (about 12.5 feet (4 m) diameter) of white paint. The center of the column is marked by a painted square in the center of the net. There is also a blue light centered down in the air outlet, so if you look straight down through the white square and see the blue light, you know your head is in the center of the air. I got to go first. The first trick is getting airborne. I found that I had to stand at least on the painted circle and preferably as far inside it as I could get before I tried to lean over and get horizontal. If I stood further away from the center, my torso would catch air but my legs wouldn't and I'd either sit there at a 45 degree angle or slide backwards out of the air. Also, as you get horizontal and your feet want to come up, I found it helped to kick off of the net towards the center of the circle. Also, the very first time I got on, there was a few seconds of Dan adjusting the airflow to get it right for me. When I first got air, it felt to me pretty much like the air rushing past me in free fall. John (and a new instructor he was training) went to work, helping me fix my body position and stay in the air column. I was only flying 3 to 6 feet (1 to 2 m) off the net, so John could simply stand on the net and hang onto me as needed. Flying this low also allowed me to "cheat" - if I was low enough and felt myself moving towards the edge of the circle, I could grab the net and recenter myself. When I was flying, John and the other instructor would use hand signals to communicate with me. If I was standing right on the edge of the air column, I could hear John if he leaned over to my ear and shouted. If we took one big step back onto the heavier net, we could have a pretty much normal conversation. I wasn't wearing earplugs. After I could get reasonbly centered, I did "big man/little man" for a bit, to go up and down relative to the net. Then, we worked some more on my body position, especially my legs. I fell out of the air a few times and onto the big net; the only time this hurt is when I landed on my shoulder and head instead of my feet and tweaked my eyeglasses around. Most of the time, when I knew I was going out of the air, I just sort of rolled off the edge of the air and landed on the net. This all happened in five-minute bursts; after five minutes in the air I was quite ready to sit down for a few minutes, drink some water, and cool off. I didn't find any new muscles I didn't know I had; I felt tired in the same places I do after a free fall, just more. John joked that I'd feel it in the morning but I didn't feel that bad when I got up the next day. I would watch the others playing in the tunnel while I was taking a break - there is an observation area with seats inside the air- conditioned building. While one person was walking out and the next person was walking in, John would often jump through the air and do a flip, or a roll, or show off by going about 40 feet up in the air. Before I got back in the air, John and I would talk a little about what I had been doing and what we were going to do in the next round. Somewhere in the second half of the time, I think I figured out what it means to be relaxed. John would give me the waggly hand or make a funny face. I would let out much of the tension in my arms and legs and the ride would get a lot more stable. This is what it's _supposed_ to feel like, I think. When I was trying to stay centered, I had to look down, but once I could stay reasonably in the center, I could look out and see the Smoky Mountains. Better than Lexan walls, I think. :) When my time was up, I went back inside and shucked off the gear. After cooling off for a while, I watched some of my video, and understood better some of the things that had been happening. Also, a large group of "locals" had come by for some tunnel time, and I talked to them, watched them, and took pictures. Some of them were doing all sorts of fancy things, like sitflying, 3-person RW, etc. Their tunnel time ran well after sunset - there are four theatre-type spotlights aimed at the flying area so you can fly after dark. When we all got done, four of the locals and I did ARW to the Waffle House in Waynesville for dinner, and then I returned to the campground for the evening. On Sunday, I decided to break camp and head for Skydive Carolina in Chester, SC - this is where some of the local skydivers were from. I was hoping to get in an AFF jump to see if the tunnel time had helped any. Having been well-taught in skydiving, I also stopped and attempted to buy some beer to take to the DZ, and discovered that South Carolina, like Oklahoma, is one of the backwards states where you can't buy beer on Sunday. I finally found the DZ in the late afternoon (SC has some interesting ideas about highway signage, as well) and inquired about making a jump. At that point I was still on two-instructor jumps, and they only had one AFF instructor there at the time, so I didn't jump. If I had called ahead of time, they might have been able to have someone there. So, I just hung out for a bit and checked it out. My home DZ has a 182, but this place had a "big plane". Even though I saw the it land, it was still a jolt when manifest came on the PA to announce the next load and didn't stop reading at four names. :) I saw the last load of the day (13 jumpers) go up and come down, and then I took off. I had planned to stay in the state park south of Chester, but found the directions at the campground to be lacking. Basically, it said that if you didn't have a permit the rangers might shoot you, but offered no information on how to obtain a permit outside of 9-5 M-F. Between that and the lack of Sunday beer, I wrote off South Carolina and returned to North Carolina, which had been treating me better, for the night. On Monday I got up, drove through Smoky Mountain National Park, and headed west for home, stopping near Nashville again on Monday night. The straight-through drive would be about 13 hours, but I decided I didn't want to knock myself out. On the other hand, knocking oneself out is relative. I started in Cherokee, North Carolina, and when I crossed back into Oklahoma, there was the "Entering Cherokee Nation" sign. It took me 13 hours of driving on the Interstate, about $40 in gas, one night camping out, and a flat tire west of Memphis. 150 years ago, the Cherokees (and other tribes) _walked_. The week went by and I went to the local DZ late Saturday afternoon (30 July), but couldn't get a jump in. I did look at my tunnel tape with my instructors and talked about my next skydive. I stayed overnight and got on the first load Sunday morning. Survey says... it worked! I was a lot more stable in free fall, and the jump went a lot better than my recent ones. I got another jump in later in the day and in that one, I did start a turn I wasn't expecting but I managed to get out of it. It's still going to take me just a few more than 7 jumps to get through AFF, but I am making progress again, so I'm happy. One observation I have about AAC: they are not yet set up for people to walk in off the street. This is made clear on their Web site, but it bears repeating. You have to book your time through the Web site, and it's not an automated "shopping cart" kind of deal - it generates an email to a human who you then correspond with to confirm your time, and this process can take a day or so to complete. It's not a big deal, but you should allow for it if you are booking time there. The facility itself is definitely fully set up to deal with walk-ins, but the business processes aren't there yet. I got the impression that this is a deliberate filter; I think they may _want_ mostly people who are already skydivers or who have played in a tunnel before to help them refine their setup before they open to the world at large. The tunnel itself works fine; the processes surrounding it seem to still be somewhat under development. Anyway, that's the story. Thanks again for the tunnel tips and pointers! Eule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #8 August 7, 2005 Hey 'Eule', What a cmplete report!! I'm sure it's been very informative for folks reading here on DZ.com... two quick things I wanted to touch on after reading.. Dan's real name is Mike (no biggie really!!) And it's quite likely that AAC will always operate using an advanced reservations system. The Swiss have used that type of system in the past and we're all pretty happy with the benefits. It helps keep costs down and provides a more private atmosphere to the visitors. Not a filter at all, after 20 years the owner is pretty much decided on how he wants things to operate.. but he can be receptive to new ideas. Until we see you again.... Happy flying! Send our love to Jack & Rebecca & the kids!!! Pink Suits, Blue Skies & Fast Air, Dawn Suiter Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites