Did the Para-commander "flare"?

[wartload 0]

Quote

Gear as we inherited it from the military was pretty bomb-proof. It was limited so we started messing with it and wound up with our own wonderful, sport specific equipment.

I want to add one observation to that, and I won't try to claim that my opinion is humble. If you want to label this "sexist," go ahead and do so--but it probably means that you weren't there at that time.

The early sport gear was modified from military gear. The military gear was designed for average American males who were in above average physical condition and were larger than the average American female.

A "normal" pull on a pin and cone rig was best executed as almost a punching jab. Hard pulls were fairly common, especially if you tried to pull the ripcord in a slow, fluid, motion.

The typical average American female of that era differed from young women of today in a number of ways. Two of those, most relevant to this posting, were:

They didn't tend to participate as much in contact sports that required strength training as they do now (indeed, "masculine" muscle development wasn't encouraged of daughters...that was too "tomboyish").

It was then considered "feminine" for the average American woman to react to an unusual circumstance by shrieking and cowering. Let's say, a mouse showed up on the floor...American women were taught that they were supposed to yell "Eek!" and jump up onto a chair (whereas Russian women back then would probably say, "Dah!" and stomp Minnie's guts out--I loved the difference in personalities of the first female Russian skydivers that I met).

I used to hate to see a petite girly-girl show up at the DZ with her boyfriend trying to talk her into doing something that she didn't really want to do. (I would have felt the same way if it had been a tiny male who was clearly afraid of the idea of jumping, but I never saw that sort of male show up at a DZ back then.)

Some of the instructors clearly felt the same way and would try to discourage women of that sort from jumping. It wasn't a sexist thing. It was looking out for that person. If the female was relatively strong, self-motivated to make the jump, and big enough that she wasn't falling out of the harness ... no problem.

If we had data on early female fatalities, especially ones where it appeared that no main was deployed or there was a malfunctioned main with no cutaway or with no reserve deployed, I'd be willing to bet that the majority would have one or more of the following traits: small build, jumped because someone else talked them into it, and/or had a passive sort of personality.

"Women" in skydiving weren't dangerous back then, but I feel that certain types/sizes of women were at a substantially higher risk than men were, primarily because the military gear wasn't designed for them.

[wmw999 2,146]

I can remember from my early days being instructed very specifically in hard pulls, and being told that going in while continuing to tug at a hard pull was a peculiarly female accident.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[GreenLight 5]

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That guy must have VERY short arms as the toggles are right in front of your face on the rear of the front risers.

Was thinking the same thing... This is just what the guy said to the Bad Spot Driver when he was picked up. That's all I know but I will ask the instructor personally today...

Green Light
"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."
"Your statement answered your question."

[ripcord4 0]

I can't wait to hear that explanation! LOL

[MikePelkey 0]

***********************************
I made about 900 jumps on rounds,
and another 900 on PC's, which I
guess are also rounds.

In both cases I used the rear risers.

I'm not sure that "flare" is the right word.

***********************************

Hey Scratch,

I jumped with you at Chicago-Hammond some many years back, I believe in 1965 or so. Do you remember me? You signed off the one jump we made together.

I was one of the two guys who made the first ever jump off the El Capitan in Yosemite National Park in July of 1966, 12 years before BASE jumping started as a sport.

Nice to see a familiar name still posting, even though I vehemently disagree that hanging on the rear risers when landings with a round, regardless of whether you're running or holding, is ALWAYS a good thing.

Blue skies,
Mike Pelkey

In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. -

"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny

[skr 1]

>I jumped with you at Chicago-Hammond some
> many years back, I believe in 1965 or so.
> Do you remember me?

I remember you from Elsinore.

And I remember when you guys jumped off of
El Capitan.


> Nice to see a familiar name still posting

Yes, I see lots of names from those days
floating around here.

I haven't been around much lately because
I just got back from several months in China.


> disagree that hanging on the rear risers when
> landings with a round

I think people are not talking about hanging on
them but rather pulling down at just the last moment
before hitting the ground.

I almost always did it - 900 jumps on rounds plus
900 jumps on PCs - and it worked pretty well.

It often followed a wind hook, which was to go
down wind and at the magic moment do a 180
toggle turn which caused an oscillation into the
wind.

The oscillation into the wind plus a sharp pull
on the rear risers gave me a moment of slowness
relative to the ground.

Skr

[Neil7 0]

I had to make 35 jumps on military cut up rounds ie.7 panel tu's, and such , before the club I belonged to (Diablo Skydivers) would let me jump my high performance PC. It certainly was a dream compared to those! I went on to make 500 or so more jumps on it and I never considered a stall much of a flare. What worked better for us was the California swoop. You ran downwind and at the last second turned 180 degree's with a shot and an half capewell cover open in case the wind caught you. Then you just cut away and didn't get dragged. It was the only way to jump in high winds in those pre square days.
By the way, the 700 more jumps I made on a square were indeed more enjoyable by far then a PC.
Neil7

Neil 7