My 1st Mal - Torn top skin

[fbalfano 0]

So I had my first mal. After I turned and tracked I remained in a stable belly to earth box until about 3500. I looked at my alt while I had my hand on the pud (alt is hand mount galaxy). Threw out pilot chute at 3000. Opening was really hard. Canopy looked ok. Unstowed my brakes, pulled toggles down, canopy reacted normally. Let it up and in full flight it folded. Pulled toggles back down it was controllable.

The top centre cell skin was torn to crap. I'm sending the canopy to PD to see if they can figure out what happened.

The main was a PD 210 (F111) and container a Vector II. I weight 215. Put 15 jumps on this canopy. Canopy had 310 jumps before this.

I'm trying to figure out why this may have happened. I've heard packing maybe. Bridle burn on the centre cell. Well...It's damaged but not sure if bridle caused it.

Anyway, any input or help is greatly appreciated.

Frank Alfano, C1, C2, IA, SSI, SSE, CA, LE, Tandem Master
C.S.P.A. C-3118
U.S.P.A. D-28788

[CornishChris 5]

Did you ride it in or cut away?

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[fbalfano 0]

I rode it in. At 2500 feet, I could keep it in control. It flared, it steered (although I gave it light gentle turns.). It landed fine. I had absolutely no injuries. Had I had any difficulty in steering, control, or it looked weird in anyway, I would have chopped it.

Frank

Frank Alfano, C1, C2, IA, SSI, SSE, CA, LE, Tandem Master
C.S.P.A. C-3118
U.S.P.A. D-28788

[beavdog 0]

I don't know that I would agree with trying to land the canopy. With that amount of damage, what happens if it decides to fold back up at 50ft. I'm glad that everything worked out alright, but if I ever end up with that type of mal, Im going to trust my rigger and chop.

Here's to the Breezes that blows through the Trezzez.....

[Botellines 0]

Is there anyway to prevent this? i mean, what about if the canopy looks alright but has structural damage and it breaks when doing a hook turn at 400 feet. No time to cutaway and deploy the reserve, no cypress, probaly an unflyable canopy... Not good. I have been told that the pressure exerted on the canopy when it opens is such that if it doesn´t break then, (as it has happen to you) it will not happen because of a hook turn? is this true?
I probably would have sworn for 1/10 of a second and cut away.
By the way, i also have a PD canopy in Vector 2 with 300 jumps and mine as well is overloaded.

Congratulations on your first malfunction.

[fudd 0]

I believe the correct action for a not landable malfunction below safe cutaway altitude would be to deploy the reserve without cutting away.
Could go from bad to worse, but better than cutting away with not enough time to get the reserve out and flying. Probably better than doing nothing as you have a chance to get a two out situation, or at least more fabric over your head.
Much would probably depend on type of malfunction and type of canopy.

Do anybody know if there has been any research or test jumping with firering the reserve while under a malfunctioning canopy?

Do other more experienced than me agree on this line of action?

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Faber 0]

Quote

Do other more experienced than me agree on this line of action?

Yes i would,but only to say that IF i found out in that low alti that my canopi were trash,i would fire my reserve,and depending at the out come migth cut the main after.

i would also stop jumping,while i think such a problem should be discovered as soon as i got the main.

Back to tread:
.You were the best person to deside if it were abel to land,i respect you for the desision.I would migth have cutted away,but i cant tell.i didnt see it happen.

Rember each time you walk away is a good one.even the one were i didnt walk away from were good.well atleast until i got hurt

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[darkwing 4]

I believe you should have cut it away. Having to hold breaks to keep it from collapsing may be comforting, but it isn't very solid insurance. It could easily have succumed to minor turbulence near the ground causing it to fold up at 50 feet.

How old was this canopy? Sure the number of jumps was low (probably), but if it spent too much time in the sun (maybe a couple of days in a tree after a cutaway) it would be seriously weakened. Did the damage follow a seam? Was there any previous damage? Ordinalrily my first guess would be some bridle-related problem with the top skin, which may or may not be clear on inspection.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[RichM 0]

Quote

I rode it in. At 2500 feet, I could keep it in control. It flared, it steered (although I gave it light gentle turns.). It landed fine. I had absolutely no injuries. Had I had any difficulty in steering, control, or it looked weird in anyway, I would have chopped it.
Frank

"...looked weird in any way..." you mean like folding up in full drive? The problem with flying a damaged canopy is that there is no way to tell when it will fail further. A tear focuses stress at the crux of the tear. Given that the canopy had just had a massive structural failure, it is impossible to say when that might become catastrophic, the canopy might have shredded itself in flight without enough height left to deploy your reserve and save your life.

You made the wrong decision - you had plenty of altitude, you knew it was not right at 2500ft - in this case you should have cut away and deployed your reserve above 2000ft.

I am pleased that you lived and I certainly hope that doesn't happen again to you, Thanks for sharing the experience so we can discuss it and learn from it.

Rich M

[pchapman 262]

Sometimes a chute with a blown top skin can continue to behave relatively well:

About 10 years back, a girl at my DZ had the top skin of her old F-111 chute blow open almost from nose to trailing edge on opening, on one of the center cells. (The nose tape and trailing edge held.) She had perhaps 200 jumps at the time, and the chute was lightly loaded, say 150 lb under a 220. I saw it happen from above, having pulled higher than her on the same load.

She landed normally, and didn't notice that anything was wrong with the chute until finding the gaping hole while packing. Only then did she realize why she remembered that the canopy turned poorly and had a shitty flare that jump.

This example is just one data point, and shouldn't be used to suggest not cutting away. That's a decision the jumper has to make for themselves.

[Conquest150 0]

The thing that i have been told to do when i am below a safe cutaway altitiude is to do a canopy transfer. which is to fire your reserve adn watch over your shoulder and when your reserve gets to about shoulder level you should cut away your main. This will cause u to swing under your reserve as it finishes deploying but this is only what i have been told to do in this situation.
Greg

[billvon 2,435]

I had a similar mal around jump #300. My PD190 opened really hard and just "felt strange" - but was controllable. It wasn't quite the right shape but I couldn't see what was wrong with it. I landed out in a field, and there was very little flare when I landed. I hit hard but PLFed and was fine.

Upon examination the topskin had torn from the bridle attach forward for about 2 feet. PD said it was a not-uncommon problem on middle aged PD190's.

[billvon 2,435]

>Is there anyway to prevent this? i mean, what about if the canopy
> looks alright but has structural damage and it breaks when doing a
> hook turn at 400 feet.

Don't do a hook turn at 400 feet if there's any question at all about the condition of your canopy, even a very hard opening. If it looks fine, and it recovers well from a hard turn at 2000 feet, chances are it won't fail further even if it has minor damage before you land. Keep in mind that the greatest stress on lines and fabric happens during opening; failures are most likely there. The chances of the canopy sustaining damage and being OK between 2500 and 1000 feet, but failing below 1000 feet, are small (fortunately.)

[billvon 2,435]

>I believe the correct action for a not landable malfunction below safe
> cutaway altitude would be to deploy the reserve without cutting away.

Depends greatly on circumstances. If you're really low and the canopy is controllable but not safely landable, it may be safer to aim for the softest thing on the DZ rather than risk an instant downplane with your reserve. If you have the altitude the transfer may be a better plan, but generally transfers only work reliably when you're under a canopy that is at least somewhat controllable. A canopy that flies straight but has a huge hole in it would be one example.

It's also worthwhile to consider how low too low is to cut away. From a cutaway, reserves can open in under 200 feet; not something you'd want to rely on, but if you're at 500 feet and you suddenly find yourself with ten broken lines (i.e. someone just ran into you) and you're spinning, a simultaneous cutaway/reserve deployment may give you the best chance of survival. When considering this, though, keep in mind that at those altitudes your reaction time has to be measured in tenths of a second to have a good shot at survival.

[HolmEwald 0]

A german investigation says reserve average open way 80 m/240 f (freefall) . Hoping this is realy true.
otherwise i am your opinion.




When you look into an abyss, the abyss looks always into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche

[Faber 0]

i had deside to NOT post here while i were at morfine,but here it comes.

[dreamsville 0]

After my first jump weekend before last at SDC (on the rig I had planned to take to Spaceland; actually ended up at Eloy due to Houston weather), I was pulling the tail around the slider of my Stilleto 135, and noticed two 3/4" tears near the back of the tail topskin. I had never seen this before, which is on an area of the canopy that we frequently see when packing, even if not doing a thorough inspection. I daisy-chained it and took it to the loft, as I was afraid it might rip on the next jump. Had I not noticed, but had suspected a problem with the main if a large rip developed, I hope I would have cut it away. Better to find out on the ground than at 100 feet.

Jeff the rigger started lightly pulling on the fabric surrounding the small rips, and it was brittle. He suggested that the decomposition may have been caused by sweat and UV rays, given the location of the damage. While I have not yet picked up the rig, they completely inspected it and found no other weak areas. I had asked that they check to be sure the canopy, after about 1,100 jumps, was still airworthy. Fortunately, it's got a ways to go. The patch supposedly will be about 18" square. It was not necessary to send it to PD.

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143