Weight Belts advise

[flyangel2 2]

Bottom line is that weights have there place. For jumpers that refuse to wear them, even when they need them, are hurting the rest of the people they are jumping with. Depending on what kind of skydiving I'm doing (larger formation on an outside wacker, or in a four way line off the base) will determine if and how much weights I wear.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[mnischalke 0]

I disagree with you in respect to the originator of this thread. This is a person who has a brand new A license. Think about it. Saying that this person, or any newbie who's not got a clue what fallrates they are capable of yet, will be hurting the people they are jumping with if they don't wear weights is dangerous advice, IMHO.

As someone who remembers being a low timer, my advice to a recent graduate of the student program: Learn to fly your body. Learn what you are capable of. Jump with someone who is much better than you, who has a firm grasp of fallrates. Refine your technique on 2-way drill dives, and work in super-positional moves as you progress. Go to Skydive U if you can. If your perfect, refined body position is still too slow, then--and only then--think about adding weights, and only after you've realized both the good and bad of using them.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[kallend 1,683]

Quote

I disagree with you in respect to the originator of this thread. This is a person who has a brand new A license. Think about it. Saying that this person, or any newbie who's not got a clue what fallrates they are capable of yet, will be hurting the people they are jumping with if they don't wear weights is dangerous advice, IMHO.

As someone who remembers being a low timer, my advice to a recent graduate of the student program: Learn to fly your body. Learn what you are capable of. Jump with someone who is much better than you, who has a firm grasp of fallrates. Refine your technique on 2-way drill dives, and work in super-positional moves as you progress. Go to Skydive U if you can. If your perfect, refined body position is still too slow, then--and only then--think about adding weights, and only after you've realized both the good and bad of using them.

So how many jumps at $20 a pop does the newbie have to waste before getting the weights he or she needs?

It is possible to work on body position improvement and wear weights at the same time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[livendive 8]

Quote

I think I meant to say: What is the average mass of additional weight carried by those needing additional weight?
bkdice has given some indication of this by suggesting that it can range from 2 to 24 pounds,
which would put 12 lbs at the middlepoint of that range.

Quote

I reckon that 2 pounds adds about 1mph to my fall rate.

..and the above reply offers more; the confirmation that a few pounds does not have dramatic effects.

Being a larger guy myself (around 210 lbs), I rarely need weights, but when I do it's like 15-25 lbs. For me, I can't think of a situation in which I would use <10 lbs, as the difference would be easy to accomplish with body position.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[mnischalke 0]

I dunno. I never wasted a penny jumping out of an aircraft, no matter how fast a diveplan went to shit. Every one is a learning experience.

If someone needs weights to fly with a fourway, great. Wear em. I am just of the opinion that someone with jump #s in the 20s probably won't be doing many 4-ways and doesn't need to have added weight. It increases risk and becomes a crutch. Again, that's my opinion.

I have gone 175 on my belly in a baggy ff suit. I have gone 110 in a tight rw suit. I can do mid 70s in that same suit in a track. If you wanna go faster, you can go faster. If you want to go slower, you can go slower. The mantis added 10 mph to my regular belly speed. I had to compensate my position to get back to about 125. Doing so made my turns faster. That's my experience.

My experience with weights has only come lately as a way to increase wingloading. 10 pounds makes my canopy fly completely differently. So, I ask you, should a newbie have to basically downsize their canopy (increased wingloading) to skydive faster or more relative to a group? (remember, rarely is it the skydive that kills--it's the time between pitching the PC and finishing the flare on your tiptoes that are the moments which decide if you're ever going to have the chance to jump again.)

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[flyangel2 2]

I've never understood why some people are so against weights. If a jumper is lighter than the other jumpers on the skydive, and tends to float out and never get into the formation, why not add weights? I have found that flying in a hard arch doesn't allow for optimum body position. the jumper is arched to hard to fly his/her body the correct way. Then bad habits are formed. I love my weights. I wear them for four way and larger formations. I can cheat more with the flying and not work as hard.
I agree that doing two ways is a good way to find out just what the fall rate and body position is, but after some time, the person is going to have to fly with other people.

Quote

So, I ask you, should a newbie have to basically downsize their canopy

A newbie should be flying a canopy that they can safety land. Somehow I don't think a newbie would be under a 120 at this point.

Edited to answer mnischalke question.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[mnischalke 0]

This person has 32 jumps!!!!!! How could she even have a clue about her range?!!! I am not against weights. I am against weights for someone who is just starting out. I feel that suggesting weights for someone of this skill/experience level is bad advice.

Weights should be the last thing you think about when it comes to adjusting fallrate. Fabric and bagginess of a suit would come before adding weights in my opinion, and body position should be a jumper's primary fallrate tool.

If we want to talk about optimum body position, I think I would have many here who agree the mantis is faster and more effective than the boxman. The student progression teaches the boxman. If you really want to go faster, eliminate surface area while making more efficient use of what god gave you--flying the mantis. It's just plain safer than strapping on weights and hoping you can fly your more heavily loaded canopy to the ground safely.

When you have a hundred jumps--80 or so on the same canopy, add some weight, if you feel you need to. When you have 1000, strap a 30-pound dumbell to your gut and have at it. That is MHO, after all.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[flyangel2 2]

We will agree to disagree.

Quote

If we want to talk about optimum body position, I think I would have many here who agree the mantis is faster and more effective than the boxman. The student progression teaches the boxman.

I agree, the mantis is the most optimum body position.

Quote

Weights should be the last thing you think about when it comes to adjusting fallrate. Fabric and bagginess of a suit would come before adding weights in my opinion, and body position should be a jumper's primary fallrate tool.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I think that the jumper maybe bright enough to be wearing a nylon jumpsuit if she's having problems with fall rate. I still say after getting in a nylon jumpsuit, and get into a comfortable body position, why not add the weights.

I'm guessing that because you are a male, you haven't had much fall rate issue. IMO, females are the ones who suffer with the fall rate more than males. (I'm not trying to be sexiest)

In my experience working with students or lower time jumpers on fall rate issues, we look at the jumpsuit, check body position and then if all else fails, add weights. Why continue to waste valuable money on jump tickets when the person can't match fall rate and the dive doesn't work?

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[mnischalke 0]

Again, I have no problem putting on weights after you've optimized a body position, if a lowtimer has explored the other options and still remains floaty. Nonetheless, through that, the lowtimer will have gained valuable experience, worked out their body position and will have more time in the saddle.

As to the fallrate differences, I have experienced the opposite end of the spectrum. On one of my first SDU jumps, my instructor, thinner and more floaty than I, asked if I would wear a longsleeve over my jumpsuit because he didn’t have his tight suit at the time. It was probably the worst jump I had. Maybe it was psychological, but rather than flying my body, I was flying the shirt. It taught me that a crutch may ingrain bad habits and body positions. I think the instructor needs to accommodate the student, not the other way around. In time, the tree will grow to bear fruit.

Carrying on with the male/female differences, I am in no way jealous of the fact that most females are lighter. Under canopy is what really makes me feel bad for them or any other lighter jumper. Jumping a 170 loaded at .8:1 is very different than flying the same canopy style in a 230 size at the same wing loading. The smaller canopy, although loaded the same, will react to input much faster, as has been explained to me by two canopy manufacturers and one USPA regional director. It's still a smaller canopy with shorter lines, even if the proportions scale equally.

Anyway, I liked this conversation, even if I sometimes seem rabid. I just like to err on the side of safety.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[Kdsosso 0]

Hello..I'm the originator of Weight belt thread and wanted to ask what may be a stupid question. If the weights add to the dive and wing loading, then would I be safer jumping a larger sized canopy like a 190 and try weights?
To answer that question I will give you a little more history. I have about 35 jumps + 105 minutes in the wind tunnel and have broken my ankle and leg twice so far. I started with a 230, then 210, then 190, now I'm jumping my dads 170 Triatholon.
My dad is a coach in Davis and feels I need weights to increase my fall rate. I trust him, however I'm always looking for other opinions. Any help is appreciated :)

Thank you for yout time,

Kristin

[debonair 0]

Quote

Again, in water, weights make you sink. You might want to say to yourself: Do I really want something in my rig that's going to possibly cause me more trouble getting it off in a water landing?

You can swim out of your rig. You can unclip your belt under canopy and get rid of the weights before you hit the water, but you can't swim out of a vest.

Around water, use a weight belt and wear it OUTSIDE your jumpsuit.

I used to have weights in the back of my rig. It made my rig heavy to carry. It wasn't too uncomfortable in freefall but was somewhat more noticable under canopy. I prefer the weight belt because I don't feel so self-conscious about sticking my "gut" out to arch and it is comfortable even under canopy.

AZChallenger JFTC99/02 GOFAST300 STILLUV4WAY
"It's nothing 1000 jumps won't cure..."
- Jeff Gorlick, Seattle Sky Divers

[debonair 0]

Quote

If the weights add to the dive and wing loading, then would I be safer jumping a larger sized canopy like a 190 and try weights? My dad is a coach in Davis and feels I need weights to increase my fall rate. I trust him, however I'm always looking for other opinions. Any help is appreciated :)

Hi Kristin,

Unlike some others who have responded, I don't see a problem with getting weights at your experience level. You may find with experience, stretching and relaxing that you don't need all the weights you start off with. Fact is, later on competitive 4-way and even larger dives may require you use weights so the investment won't go to waste.

As far as canopy size, it's hard to give a specific answer or recommendation without knowing and seeing you fly. I have always been conservative in my canopy sizes. I jump a Spectre 150 and weigh about 155lbs without weights. I am comfortable jumping up to 10lbs of weights - after that I still jump my 150 but use more caution in my turns, approach and landing.

Keep learning and asking questions! There's no dumb questions here...

AZChallenger JFTC99/02 GOFAST300 STILLUV4WAY
"It's nothing 1000 jumps won't cure..."
- Jeff Gorlick, Seattle Sky Divers

[suz 0]

Just jump nekkid! You'll be fine!

Don't bother me, I'm living happily ever after

[jumpgod 0]

i'm a latecomer to this topic and my opinion may differ as i didn't read the other posts but i wore a weight belt maybe a dozen times and they suck. i've learned to use my body for speed -- i recommend this highly as it will increase your skill and ability. just learn to be very aggressive and you'll learn to use your 'body' for speed. i once hit 155 on my belly and i'm a tall guy and weigh very little. trust me, if i did it, you can too.

blue ones,

jg

"dude, where's my main?"

[mjosparky 3]

Mike,
I have seen flyangle2 fly. You might do yourself some good by taking heed in what she says. In one day she flew in close with a base that fell like a man hole cover and on the out side of a 62 way. By the way, what is you experience on varied fall rates.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mnischalke 0]

I never said I doubted HER abilities. I doubted her ADVICE to a newbie to strap on weights before exploring body positon and suit selection.

Good day,

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[mjosparky 3]

Mike,
All days are good days, just some are better than others.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Mad47 0]

Quote

I wouldn't rush into weights. As mentioned above, go for a very fast suit, and work on technique (i.e., arching) first.

If and when you do go for weights I recommend a belt, rather than a vest. I agree with the view that there are actual aerodynamic advantages to a belt.

Absolutely agree with Darkwind. I had a back injury a while ago (before I started skydiving) and my arch was sloppy from the very beginning. When I started to wear weights, I realized that it helps to fall faster but I tend to fly even more de-arched. You have to make sure that you are still in the middle of you dynamic range when wear led.