Long weekend, NOT the good kind. My first cutaway.

[pchapman 261]

Hellis

Ok, lets talk about the spinning mal.
You are concerned that when you chop from a spinning mal you keep spining.

You do keep spinning. Yes, despite an object departing at a tangent to the circle in which it was being spun.
We've been over that in big threads with plenty of argument.

If your body is rotating around its own axis, as it is in a classic skydiving spiral, it continues to do so, slowed by drag and any jumper input.

There are occasional mals that spin you more around your long axis; then you also continue to spin around your long axis.

The hammer sports event is a poor example as it the hammer (a sphere) is in effect a point mass and one can't watch it rotate as it is let go, plus it has the trailing handle to confuse matters by affecting the rotation. So yes it goes straight into the stadium, but it rotates, with the handle flailing wildly.

What effect the continued spinning has on a jumper after the cutaway, is another matter entirely.

Usually it has little practical effect on an RSL deployed reserve, and even if there are line twists, they are most likely cleared quickly and safely.

Whatever the spinning going on, one can still have the airflow going some odd angle across one's body, so that an RSL deployment will punch the pilot chute out into airflow that is for example going against one's back and across a shoulder past an arm. An RSL deployed reserve in no way guarantees a stable deployment.

Nevertheless, RSL deployments do work reliably.

But you can't use the "no spinning" argument to advocate RSLs, because the argument doesn't hold.

If you want a stable reserve deployment, you need to cutaway, get stable(ish), and deploy your reserve. Works fine if you have altitude, and not so well if you don't, or can't find the reserve handle, but that's the choice you make.

[Hellis 0]

pchapman

***Ok, lets talk about the spinning mal.
You are concerned that when you chop from a spinning mal you keep spining.

You do keep spinning. Yes, despite an object departing at a tangent to the circle in which it was being spun.
We've been over that in big threads with plenty of argument.

If your body is rotating around its own axis, as it is in a classic skydiving spiral, it continues to do so, slowed by drag and any jumper input.

There are occasional mals that spin you more around your long axis; then you also continue to spin around your long axis.

The hammer sports event is a poor example as it the hammer (a sphere) is in effect a point mass and one can't watch it rotate as it is let go, plus it has the trailing handle to confuse matters by affecting the rotation. So yes it goes straight into the stadium, but it rotates, with the handle flailing wildly.

What effect the continued spinning has on a jumper after the cutaway, is another matter entirely.

Usually it has little practical effect on an RSL deployed reserve, and even if there are line twists, they are most likely cleared quickly and safely.

Whatever the spinning going on, one can still have the airflow going some odd angle across one's body, so that an RSL deployment will punch the pilot chute out into airflow that is for example going against one's back and across a shoulder past an arm. An RSL deployed reserve in no way guarantees a stable deployment.

Nevertheless, RSL deployments do work reliably.

But you can't use the "no spinning" argument to advocate RSLs, because the argument doesn't hold.

If you want a stable reserve deployment, you need to cutaway, get stable(ish), and deploy your reserve. Works fine if you have altitude, and not so well if you don't, or can't find the reserve handle, but that's the choice you make.

I understand what you are saying.
I probably missused the word spin.

I just did a quick searh and found these:
http://youtu.be/htpBj2FZ9jo?t=1m17s
http://youtu.be/_TltnQsc8mk?t=3m15s

The first one does not spin (or very little) after the chop, but the second one does.
You are correct that you can spin around your own axis as in this video.
But the word I was looking for was probably flip/somersault.
A spin as such you see in the second video is in my opinion not that big issue.
However a flip/somersault is a big issue, and that "can't" happen.
But as we saw from the OP video a somersault/flip or headdown can happen without a RSL. And that can be a very big issue.

Sorry for the confusion.

[chuckakers 370]

TracyS

Yes, that's what I thought it was when I looked up at it.
I didn't catch it when laid it down for the packer.
I always stow my brakes, un-collapse the slider and walk the lines even though I use a packer because I figure it's ultimately my responsibility, not the packer.
The packer does/checks those things also and felt bad for not catching either, but it was 100% my mistake.

It's a good idea to perform a quick line check each time you lay your canopy out. It's quick and easy - just make sure that the brake lines, the outside front lines, and the outside rear lines go from the links to the canopy without crossing any other line.

Whether it's your job or the packer's job at your DZ, you're the one that will end up with the problem. Doing it yourself will eliminate the possibility.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[TracyS 0]

chuckakers

***Yes, that's what I thought it was when I looked up at it.
I didn't catch it when laid it down for the packer.
I always stow my brakes, un-collapse the slider and walk the lines even though I use a packer because I figure it's ultimately my responsibility, not the packer.
The packer does/checks those things also and felt bad for not catching either, but it was 100% my mistake.

It's a good idea to perform a quick line check each time you lay your canopy out. It's quick and easy - just make sure that the brake lines, the outside front lines, and the outside rear lines go from the links to the canopy without crossing any other line.

Whether it's your job or the packer's job at your DZ, you're the one that will end up with the problem. Doing it yourself will eliminate the possibility.

Chuck, I couldn't agree with you more. I honestly don't know if my DZ has a specific policy about it. I personally view it as being in my own best interest regardless of the any policy the DZ might have to check it myself for the very reason you state.
I always, without exception, walk my lines and I've never seen my packer not do the same. I have no idea how this ended up happening.
Either we both missed it or it happened during packing.
I honestly don't even care at this point. No one was hurt and, as in many other close calls, it can serve as a reminder to me, my packer and anyone else to be vigilant in checking their gear.

In naval aviation, tool boxes are checked out and back in every time they are used. They have shadows where each tool goes and yet, every once in a while, a tool is still forgotten on an aircraft.
I used to teach people that their eyes will lie to them, that they will see what they expect to see. So I would try to instill in them to touch every tool as they inventoried it.
Thanks for the feedback.

Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd.

Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line.

[crotalus01 0]

Never forget when using a packer - you pay for the packjob, not the opening...

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[nigel99 144]

Ron

Quote

I will consider getting an RSL. Not attempting to rationalize not having one but just clarifying, I chose to wait a second or two before pulling. I had a hand on each handle and could have done a quick one the the other.
Your advice, as always, is good advice and I'll give it some thought.

Don't let people bully you into doing what THEY want. You did fine. Yes, an RSL might save you, it also might kill you but they never mention that point.

Hey Ron,

I'm in the process of adding an RSL, but what you say is spot on. Most of my life I've been involved in design engineering, and if it has taught me nothing else, it is that the wierdest unexpected shit can happen with a design. As a result I look at an RSL and it gives me the shits when I visualise the potential failure modes that are blatantly apparent, people fail to realise the trade-offs. On balance I believe a standard RSL is a good investment and the total risk almost certainly decreases (although, I will be sorely upset if I go in because of my RSL)

Skyhook is a whole different ball game, seems like a fantastic idea to anchor your bridle to your main. Total malfunction on your main and small rigging error and you are well and truly screwed. I realise that it is almost certainly going to be a rigging error that would cause this, but mistakes happen to all of us including riggers. I really like increase in reliability due to parallel systems, as soon as the main and reserve are coupled you degrade the overall system reliability.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.