PAC 750XL: Pros and Cons

[diablopilot 2]

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)...I was talking about weight. I've seen 5-jumper 182s with wing extensions, hopped up engines, seat belts for all, etc and I felt safe in the plane. I even talked to the DZO about the weight.

Most skydivers don't take the weight into consideration, they see five seatbelts and count 5 heads.

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If you had 4 guys like me you couldn't take a 5th, but most "average" jumpers 5 were within the weight.

Average? What's your definition of average? Mosh CG worksheets I've seen factor 170lbs for the "average". Now look around your DZ and see how many jumpers fall in the "average" with all their gear"

170lbs X 5 = 850lbs

I will propose the real "average is closer to 200lbs. (I have a little experience to base that guess on) and while the 150 lbs total difference isn't much, it will be in an engine out. That's the situation I'm most worried about. A 182 stall on jumprun is pretty much a non event.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[PhreeZone 15]

Something else to consider is "Max Gross landing" weight. Thats the weight the aircraft is rated to land at. Its usually less then what the max gross take off weight is.

It would suck to have a landing, and have the gear fold up and people die do to that.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

Firstly, thanks for the bold yelling, that's real cool.

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Average? What's your definition of average? Mosh CG worksheets I've seen factor 170lbs for the "average".

Plug and chug dude, we have our jumper's weight and gear weight in the computer, when a load manifests if its even close to the weight limit, it warns manifest. We have even limited loads to less people due to weight. We even have every single one of our tandem students weighed and put in the computer to help us out for the plane (and the TIs).

Basically, just because you don't think people and the DZ that runs a 182 isn't as good as a turbine DZ, doesn't mean that we don't do everything to keep things safe. Also, remember, just because you don't agree with something, doesn't mean its not safe.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[diablopilot 2]

AD, I am sure you guys run a safe op. Infact you've given evidence to suport that. You monitor the WEIGHT, rather than the LOAD. Good!

Most DZ's don't and that's the fear. They will see that "DZ X" does it, so can we.

You seem to think I have a venedeta against small DZ's. Nothing could be furthur from the turth, a0 the DZ that I started at isn't too much bigger than yours, b) most of my business comes from DZ's FAR smaller than the ones I jump at, and c) the BEST VIBES I've ever enjoied at a DZ have been at 182 DZ's. I REALLY DO miss 182 jumps.

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Basically, just because you don't think people and the DZ that runs a 182 isn't as good as a turbine DZ, doesn't mean that we don't do everything to keep things safe

Please don't assume anything of the sort, it just isn't true.

There are bad examples out there of both sorts of DZ. I'm sure we can all think of one or two. I know which mine would be.

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Also, remember, just because you don't agree with something, doesn't mean its not safe.

You're right. I can be just as wrong as the next guy. I still won't get in a 182 with 5 jumpers.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Deuce 1]

I've read that Diablopilot has already responded, but just to add, his previous DZ is very much like my current one. A Cessna during the week, usually, and a turbine on the weekends.

AggieDave, there's just no way that SoCal is any kind of turbine snob.

[rsein 0]

It's a nice plane but, WAY TO TIGHT!

Even with 13 on board, I could not breathe with a rig pressing on my chest.

Up to 11 on board is fine. More than that feels like canned sardines.

HISPA #5

[gjhdiver 0]

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Jumped the PAC 750XL this weekend at the Byron Boogie. Thought some people would like to share their perceived pros and cons. Mine;

I was expecting a little more from this A/C. It's not really good for tandems, it's hard to get a tight exit on a 14 way or bigger because of the cramped low conditions, and whilst the door is perfect for four way, it's dimensions and prop blast would make make it unusable for a serious team to consider practicing from it. If they had considered raising the upper dimension of the door by extending it into the roof 8-10 inches, then a lot of complaints about it would go away, and it would be a serious contender. I hope that any future variants will look into this once they start getting feedback from the world skydiving community.

On the good side, it's a new aircraft coming into a small niche that badly needs replacements for it's fleet of aging piston aircraft. It's got great views, a nice step, and climbs reasonably well. I expect a lot of drop zones will look at this plane who are busy enough to have outgrown their Cessnas, but are not busy enough to justify a Twin Otter. In it's current configuration though, it will be beaten hands down for function by a Twin Otter. It's heading into that market currently filled with King Airs, Porters, Beavers, Caravan's or Single Otters IMHO. A single Otter with a Dash 34 up front would be a better choice if available though IMHO.

Bottom line for me, I'll be happy to jump one when it turns up, but I wouldn't choose a DZ based solely on it being there. I expect if it's profiatble enough, future variants of the type may address some of the issues with the door.

I do wish Ray every success with it. He deserves a break for taking the time and effort to get this all done and type rated.