my last two things to get rid of

[chuteless 1]

I have a very good BELL helmet, that I used since the early 1970s, and its always been kept in a helmet bag when not being used. I had to replace some foam padding inside, but other than that it is in extremely good condition. It is an excellent helmet, and the one I used on all demos when not using a camera helmet.

If anyone wants it, and is willing to pay to have it shipped , the helmet is FREE to anyone declaring his/her head to be the same size.



I will give it to the FIRST person with the correct size, and I'll need your mailing address once I confirm who that person is.

PLEASE email me at < [email protected] >

I also have a new pair of goggles, which I bought last year. They have a silver frame, and tinted lens.I like the way they fit, and visibility is quite good. I dont know the manufactrer, but they are like new...I used them for about 7 or 8 jumps in 2004.

First person to ask for them can have them. Just email me at the above email address, and I will respond to the first who asks.


Bill Cole D-41

[DBCOOPER 1]

7 1/4.... Medium

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[chuteless 1]

The helmet and goggles have been promised. I have the names of the two people that wanted them.

Thanks for the interest ,

Bill Cole

[KidWicked 0]

Quote

I have a very good BELL helmet, that I used since the early 1970s, and its always been kept in a helmet bag when not being used. I had to replace some foam padding inside, but other than that it is in extremely good condition. It is an excellent helmet, and the one I used on all demos when not using a camera helmet.

If anyone wants it, and is willing to pay to have it shipped , the helmet is FREE to anyone declaring his/her head to be the same size.



I will give it to the FIRST person with the correct size, and I'll need your mailing address once I confirm who that person is.

PLEASE email me at < [email protected] >

I also have a new pair of goggles, which I bought last year. They have a silver frame, and tinted lens.I like the way they fit, and visibility is quite good. I dont know the manufactrer, but they are like new...I used them for about 7 or 8 jumps in 2004.

First person to ask for them can have them. Just email me at the above email address, and I will respond to the first who asks.


Bill Cole D-41

Getting ready for the rapture?

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[Speer 0]

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Getting ready for the rapture?

I suspect that will be my first jump with Mr Cole...

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

[KidWicked 0]

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Getting ready for the rapture?

I suspect that will be my first jump with Mr Cole...

Except you'd go up wouldn't you? Or maybe not...

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[Speer 0]

Quote

Except you'd go up wouldn't you? Or maybe not...

Yes, likely up; that is the generally held interpretation... "

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18".

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

[billvon 2,444]

>Yes, likely up; that is the generally held interpretation... "

Except in Revelation, God brings the City of New Jerusalem down to Earth; he doesn't bring people up. That's after the seven seals are broken, and the seven angels sound their horns, and John eats the little book, and the sea monster attacks, and the seven plagues are loosed etc.

Revelation 21:
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

On the plus side, it's one massive city; around 1400 miles on a side, and it's full of jewels. Which should be plenty of room since only 144,000 people will be allowed to enter. Don't know if the buildings are tall enough to jump though.

[Speer 0]

Yes, you are correct that the city coming down to Earth is in the plan... but it is generally held to be two distinct events, separated by at least 1007 years. The "Rapture" as the "Jump" to altitude at the beginning of the Tribulation, and the Holy City coming down out of Heaven over a thousand years later to the New Heaven and Earth for the future eternity.

I do not agree that only 144,000 people will be allowed in... can't find that anywhere in the bible. There are two sets of 144,000 mentioned; the witnesses on earth (all Jews, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes, and an additional 144,000 who are witnesses in heaven and not specifically identified.

Holy Smokers... theology on DZ.com... but it is a type of jump after all.

Mr. Cole and I traded PMs some time back on this subject, and I do look forward to the eventual 180 deg. "Jump" with him.

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

[billvon 2,444]

>I do not agree that only 144,000 people will be allowed in... can't
>find that anywhere in the bible. There are two sets of 144,000
> mentioned; the witnesses on earth (all Jews, 12,000 from each of
> the twelve tribes, and an additional 144,000 who are witnesses in
> heaven and not specifically identified.

Revelation 7:
Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed . . .

(who then make another appearance in)

Revelation 14:
Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins.

Now, these guys are definitely getting into heaven, because the verse continues "These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes." And presumably Jesus gets heavenly access whenever he wants it. The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret this as 144,000 get into heaven and the rest of them end up in the big city, New Jerusalem. Which is definitely not in heaven - " I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God." (Rev 3) But as heaven, as described in Revelation, is full of seven-horned dead sheep and vengeful angels, New Jerusalem might be a better choice anyway.

But there's a catch. New Jerusalem really _isn't_ on the earth, at least the earth as we understand it. "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea." (Rev 21) At that point anyone who is written in the book of life might be allowed into this city, after (presumably) being transported from the old earth.

So although it looks like you've got a shot at getting into the city, it definitely seems to be at lower elevations than heaven. Per Revelation you have to be a Jewish male virgin to even qualify for the big trip up. Which may or may not be a good thing.

>Holy Smokers... theology on DZ.com... but it is a type of jump after all.

Four years of scripture classes will do that to people.

[Speer 0]

Caveat as a preface to response:

It is unrealistic to dogmatic about everything written in Revelation, however, I have arrived at my current beliefs about the future after an evolving understanding about what I think the scriptures say...YMMV. -Russ

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Revelation 7:
Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed . . .

This group is definitely Jewish... and sealed to God as servants on Earth during the Tribulation, as the four angels are restrained from causing harm till the 144,000 are sealed to protect them...

Quote

(who then make another appearance in)

I think the scriptures bear out that the 144,000 mentioned in Rev 14 are in fact a different group, not the same as those of Rev 7.

Quote

Revelation 14:
Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, who have his name and His Father's name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins.

I added the bold section as it is in the passage, and calls out one of the differences in the two groups... A second major difference is that the Rev 7 group are patently Jewish, the Rev 14 group is noted as being redeemed out of the earth, not just the Jewish nation. Further, the Rev 7 group are obviously on the earth, while the Rev 14 group have to be in Heaven if you subscribe to the pre-trib, pre-millenial time frame (as I obviously do), since Jesus is with them in this passage, on the Mount of Zion, during the middle of the Tribulation.

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Now, these guys are definitely getting into heaven, because the verse continues "These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes." And presumably Jesus gets heavenly access whenever he wants it. The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret this as 144,000 get into heaven and the rest of them end up in the big city, New Jerusalem. Which is definitely not in heaven - " I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God." (Rev 3) But as heaven, as described in Revelation, is full of seven-horned dead sheep and vengeful angels, New Jerusalem might be a better choice anyway.

Well, I believe that the "New Heaven and Earth" as well as the "New Jerusalem" are in fact the "Heaven" we refer to as the eternal place of bliss for those who will spend eternity with God. Revelation 21:22-24 make clear that God and Jesus are the only temple in the city, and they are the light of the city, and will abide there with the inhabitants. Rev 21:24-26 go on to say that the gates will never shut, and there will be no darkness. As for who is allowed to enter... those whose names are written in the "Lambs book of Life" (Rev 21:27). If you take that to mean those who are redeemed, from ancient times to the millenial age, it will exclude only those who reject God, and his offer of redemption through the sacrifice of his son.

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But there's a catch. New Jerusalem really _isn't_ on the earth, at least the earth as we understand it. "Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea." (Rev 21) At that point anyone who is written in the book of life might be allowed into this city, after (presumably) being transported from the old earth.

(Italics immediately above mine) Name has to be in the "Lambs book of life". The name of every human who ever lived is written in the book of life. The scripture indicates that only those whose name is also written in the Lambs book of Life will enter the eternal state, as redeemed humans, in the presence of God. And you are completely right about earth being a totally different place... no seas, and some argue that in Rev 21:5, Gods statement that "I am making everything new" indicate that he will open additional dimensions or an existence that we have little or no chance of understanding now.

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So although it looks like you've got a shot at getting into the city, it definitely seems to be at lower elevations than heaven. Per Revelation you have to be a Jewish male virgin to even qualify for the big trip up. Which may or may not be a good thing.

As I indicated, I believe all who enter the eternal state as redeemed will have equal access.
***
>Holy Smokers... theology on DZ.com... but it is a type of jump after all.

Four years of scripture classes will do that to people.

[scottbre 0]

So when's the big day? (give or take a month).

"Your mother's full of stupidjuice!"
My Art Project

[lisamariewillbe 1]

if only 144000 are allowed in then why the hell do they try to recruit new people??? I swear that just makes no sense to me... Also to anyone using a vector 3 for a tall person with approx a 200 main with a student AAD hurry up and get rid of it before this "rapture" email me for my address you only have a few weeks before the end and hell you wouldnt want the end of the world to happen without sending me your rig

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Unparagoned 0]

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if only 144000 are allowed in then why the hell do they try to recruit new people??? I swear that just makes no sense to me...

Well everyone else gets to live on earth-paradise, after the end(rapture) comes.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

yippeeeeee Id rather die and be dead when the rature comes then live in a world of jehovah witnesses, whose door will they go to after the rature comes and they are living in earth -paradise?

Life is paradise now, dont need to wait for the end, this is only the beginning.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[billvon 2,444]

>if only 144000 are allowed in then why the hell do they try to recruit
>new people???

Cause even if you don't go up to heaven, anyone in the Lamb's Book of Life who is judged worthy gets into the excellent city on Earth II. But of course everyone argues about that. The Mormons disagree with the Jehovah's Witnesses, and they disagree with the Catholics, and they don't quite agree with the Baptists or Anglicans. And of course almost no one agrees with the Jews, even though their books are based on the same stories.

>I swear that just makes no sense to me...

Well, the story of Goldilocks makes no sense either, but it teaches kids something. What happens in Relevation is basically a dream that John had, rather than a literal description of what's going to happen. I suspect there really won't be a seven-eyed, seven-horned dead lamb running things, or a vengeful Jesus with a sword sticking out of his mouth, or even a swarm of horrible stinging locusts with human heads and little gold crowns, even if John saw all that in his dream.

Edited to add - Sorry, just realized that we're getting into religion in General Skydiving. Let's either take it to SC or get back to talking about all the stuff that Bill is giving away.

[Speer 0]

I couldn't tell you within a millenium, let alone a month or two... no one knows except for the "Father" as Jesus said. But I think it's gonna be pretty soon...

Sorry Bill, never intended my flip comment about the upwards jump to hijack Mr. Coles thread...

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?