Taking your rig on mass transit

[bisqit999 0]

With heightened security these days...espaecially in NY and NJ mass transit lines....what would you do if you had your rig with you and they wanted to serach it before getting on the train or the subway? I may have to go through Jersey transit in a few weeks and don't know what I would do. Thoughts???

[MB38 0]

I'd recommend putting it inside of your gear bag. If questioned, inform them of the policy regarding air travel (it's completely fine per chapter section 17.2 of revision 4 of the security checkpoint manual) and request the same handling. There is a chance that they'll have you unpack the rig [particularly if you have a CYPRES... it'll seem weird to those who don't know what it is], so have a gear bag at all costs.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[Feeblemind 1]

This might be useful as well www.cypres.cc/Sites/englisch/My_Cypres_airtravel.htm I would print a copy and have it with me. this might prevent some flatfoot from opening your entire rig.

Phil

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[brycew 0]

I'm wondering how frequently they do an entire unpack and force the need for a reserve repack.

Anybody hear of any of these cases?

[tombuch 0]

Quote

With heightened security these days...espaecially in NY and NJ mass transit lines....what would you do if you had your rig with you and they wanted to serach it before getting on the train or the subway? I may have to go through Jersey transit in a few weeks and don't know what I would do. Thoughts???

It sounds like you have hit upon a rare problem that could be a big issue for NYC based skydivers. I am the Safety and Training Advisor at The Ranch in Gardiner, NY, and made a few calls to the NYC Police Department today on behalf of our New York City jumpers who share your situation and concerns.

Based on several phone calls, my general impression is that the NYC Police Department is struggling to deal with issues related to bag inspections on mass transport. The task is new and they are not yet well trained in this area, although they are beginning to develop solutions to problems such as the inspection of parachute equipment.

Fortunately, procedures for the inspection of parachutes as baggage have been created for airport screeners, and the parachute industry has a long history of working with the various organizations, companies, and government agencies that handle this task. We should have a relatively easy time transitioning existing commercial aviation procedures to the mass transit environment, assuming the NYC police department is willing to work with user groups representing skydivers.

My first few calls to NYPD were met with a cliché NY attitude suggesting that the needs of users didn’t matter, and that parachutes would be opened and inspected at will regardless of the consequences to the users or the equipment. Once I moved beyond the front line phone operators I was able to speak with folks in the office of the Deputy Commissioner of Public Information. The Deputy Commissioners office is now working my concerns through the office of Counter Terrorism Prevention, and I should hear back from them shortly. My hunch is that we can build a reasonable search protocol that relies on the judgment of well trained police officers, and that protects the integrity of parachute equipment.

In the meantime, I have updated an old letter I used when traveling on airlines with my rig, and included it here as an attachment. You may feel free to print the document and carry it along with your gear in the NYC subway system. You might consider having your local DZ print the document on official stationary to make it look a bit more official. I’d also suggest that you make sure of the following:

The rig should have a TSO tag (generally near the packing data card pocket).

The packing data card should include your name, and the serial number of the rig.

The packing data card should include the rigger seal number.

You should carry a USPA membership card.

I’ll be following up with the NYC Police Department in hopes of including parachute equipment in their training and printed resources. Let’s all keep in mind that the random inspection of carry-on baggage on mass transit is probably going to be a continuing issue for a long time to come. As such, we should be focused on solving the long term issues associated with inspections, with a focus on the training of the inspectors.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[MB38 0]

What gets me is that if somebody was trying to hide a bomb and take it on a bus... it's not going to be in a skydiving container... about the most conspicuous bag ever. Yet we all know which bag will be searched first.

Though I suppose you could think to hide something in a container just because of how weird it is... no way they'd search you... or something.

I don't know. I guess I'd rather have safer transit and be inconvenienced every now and again.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[tombuch 0]

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Though I suppose you could think to hide something in a container just because of how weird it is... no way they'd search you... or something.

I don't know. I guess I'd rather have safer transit and be inconvenienced every now and again.

You are correct that a skydiving parachute rig is not likely to be used by a terrorist, but of course it could be used for that purpose.

Police should be able to assess the actual risk of a specific bag or person and then make a judgment decision about the level of search required. Opening a reserve container in the subway environment is very disruptive, can harm the reserve parachute, and is rarely necessary. The ideal solution is for the police to learn about parachutes and parachutists so they can make appropriate judgments about risk in the field environment.

I like to use the analogy of a muscian taking a guitar and amplifier on a subway. A responsible police officer will open the external case and see that the package is a guitar amplifier. Of course the amplifier case could still contain explosives, but it is unlikely the police officer will need to physically remove the screws and inspect the electronic contents. Rather, the officer will be able to politely question the citizen, inspect the exterior of the amplifier, and then make a judgment that the package is not a threat. I suppose an amplifier case that smells of fuel oil and is dripping brown liquid might raise additional suspicions, as might a passenger who doesn’t know how to operate the amplifier, or can’t answer simple questions about music. In those cases a more detailed and invasive inspection might be called for. The same is true for parachute equipment…police should have a general understanding of the equipment and a basic ability to assess the threat level.

It seems that NYC residents have reached a collective conclusion that their right to privacy, and their rights to be free of unreasonable search and seizure, do not extend to the subway system as absolute protections. With that in mind, police should find every means possible to minimize the intrusion of searches, and to protect, as much as possible, the constitutional protections afforded United States citizens.

I live in Vermont where my biggest security concern is whether I left my car keys in the ignition, or under the drivers seat. I also worry (sometimes) about being attacked by a hungry black bear when I’m sleeping under the stars in the local wilderness area. Subway and urban terrorist threats just don’t register with me. I do understand the concern among NYC residents, and hope that we can find reasonable ways to balance civil rights and public safety, at least with regard to the inspection of parachute equipment.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Salsa_John 0]

Here are two documents I use.

see next post for second

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[Salsa_John 0]

here is the second

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[bisqit999 0]

Thanks for all the great info and Tom thanks for all your work on this. I will let you know in a couple weeks what happens or if somebody else goes through this please explain your experience.

thanks