Jackpunx 0 #1 January 17, 2006 Hi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #2 January 17, 2006 If your profile is even remotely up to date, you have absolutely no business jumping a camera. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niu 0 #3 January 17, 2006 If you have anything that poses a snag hazard on your helmet then disconnect the RSL if you normally use one and make sure you can get rid of the helmet in a hurry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 January 17, 2006 Haven't you seen the ad in Parachutist? All you really need to do is buy the Samsung, and then wear it on that cool looking headband. What could possibly go wrong? To the original poster. It's too early. Take your time and go see some of the pro-photogs at the School for answers to your questions. They do it everyday, they have dealt with it all. Talk to Steve Barker, Lew Lewis (Lewmonst on here) or any of the others back there at the school.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #5 January 17, 2006 Agreed.I started jumping a camera at about 140 jumps and thinking back was nowhere near prepared to deal with the emergencies that could present themselves wearing a camera helmet. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #6 January 17, 2006 QuoteHaven't you seen the ad in Parachutist? All you really need to do is buy the Samsung, and then wear it on that cool looking headband. What could possibly go wrong? To the original poster. It's too early. Take your time and go see some of the pro-photogs at the School for answers to your questions. They do it everyday, they have dealt with it all. Talk to Steve Barker, Lew Lewis (Lewmonst on here) or any of the others back there at the school. I talked to Alex and jumped with Lew all day.. but.. didnt realize till I got home that I was going to get strung out on it.. As far as anything getting caught up.. It is the same camera your talking about.. I put it in my chest pocket and the wire was taped to my helmet.. It felt very small and out of the way.. LOL.. I don’t know why Im trying to explain myself.. It was a normal RW jump I just pressed a button before we left the airplane.. Either way.. I'll talk to them and see what I need to do.. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 January 17, 2006 I'm not trying to harsh you out about it.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #8 January 17, 2006 QuoteI'm not trying to harsh you out about it. No harsh taken I am open minded to what I should have fear over.. I just couldnt think of it at the time.. Im in no rush.. Its a very cool thinig though.. What could happen? and what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it thanks Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #9 January 17, 2006 QuoteIf you have anything that poses a snag hazard on your helmet then disconnect the RSL if you normally use one and make sure you can get rid of the helmet in a hurry. thanks for the solution.. many people like myself can hear those better than .."you have no business" with no solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johnny1488 1 #10 January 17, 2006 I think the idea should be to tell the jumper with 65 jumps to not jump a camera rather than tell the jumper with 65 jumps to disconnect their rsl. A lot more jumpers go in from not getting a canopy over their head than camera helmet entanglements. But 65 jumps is no place to be testing this theory. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites niu 0 #11 January 17, 2006 Quote many people like myself can hear those better than .."you have no business" with no solution. A little late for that since you`ve obviously already started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #12 January 17, 2006 QuoteQuote many people like myself can hear those better than .."you have no business" with no solution. A little late for that since you`ve obviously already started. You know.. Honestly I would re think it and wait if I could come up with a situation that would keep me from being under my canopy. I did do it.. A couple times and at that time.. couldn’t think of something that could go wrong.. And either could the instructors that I jumped with. Having said that.. again I would re consider.. but the previous post was a little harsh.. He could have taken 3 more minutes and said “why” instead of barking an order.. So thanks for taking the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #13 January 17, 2006 QuoteI just couldnt think of it at the time.. That's the problem. You haven't thought about it. This is not a sport to be trying new stuff without thinking through the ramifications. Do a search on "starting camera." It'll surely come up with some posts because I know I've seen this issue discussed before. I bet there's even more in the Photography and Video forum. You know where else it is? The SIM. An imperfect document to be sure, and sometimes a little hard to read, but a very good place to start. There's a whole section on camera flying recommendations."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #14 January 17, 2006 You might take a look at what the SIM recommends in terms of jump numbers before jumping a camera. If I recall it has some explanation on why too. Best of luck to you. Blues, Ron (the nicely dressed one)"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #15 January 17, 2006 Thats what I was going to suggest after realizing I didn't give the right answer. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #16 January 17, 2006 QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 1/20/1996 Sunstate Freefall, FL EXC,CCOL 43 4300 ?/? Description: Two jumpers were under canopy. One was jumping a banner. The other was filming. The cameraman in maneuvering contacted the banner, and a "wrap" followed. They were heard to be discussing the situation. At an alt. of aprox 600 feet the cameraman told the other jumper to "cutaway". The jumper deployed his reserve and when it reached line-stretch proceeded to cutaway. He got an open reserve at aprox 10 to 20 feet. The cameraman was still with the "mess" which reportedly equaled less than half a canopy and was spinning. The cameraman cutaway at aprox. 100-150 feet and impacted the ground shortly afterward. Lessons:Filming someone who is making an exceptional skydive makes things more complicated for the cameraman. It's important to remain altitude aware even after a canopy collision. Cutting away below 500ft or so is rarely a good idea. An AAD would not have changed the outcome. Skydiving reports that no banner was involved in this jump, and that the alititude of the cutaway is unknown QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/30/1997 Cross Keys, NJ CRW 32 2000 ?/? Description: While videoing a 2-way CRW jump, a wrap occured at about 4000' between the camera flyer and another dive participant. The deceased cutaway, but the slider stowed behind his head became caught on part of his camera helmet and thus his main failed to seperate. The reserve became entangled with the main and he hit the ground hard. He was alert and concious that evening, but died of internal injuries the next morning while in surgery. The deceased was taking part in as well as or videoing the CRW dive. He was likely jumping a Jedei, which is not a canopy designed for CRW. He indicated he had to deploy the reserve because lines were around his neck and he was starting to pass out. Lessons:While it may appear the deceased did "everything right", a slider stowed behind the head both obscures vision and can hamper a clean cutaway in the event of a canopy collision (CRW related or not.) If a camera helmet has exposed surfaces on which a line, riser, bridle or other canopy component could become snagged, it is helpful if the helmet may be cutaway. Flying a camera, particularly in CRW formations, always presents some additional hazards. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/10/1998 Las Vegas, NV CCOL 34 3600 ?/? Description: This was the first load of the day. The deceased was filming an 8 way, birthday load. According to reports, there was not much separation at break off. After breakoff at 4000ft, he did not deploy in place, as had been the plan. But instead, several witnesses said that they saw him start tracking in the same direction as the other fun jumpers. He was seen waving off and pulling directly above another fun jumper. Several witnesses from the ground, and from the air, saw his canopy open in a severe spin. It appeared that he was trying to unstow his steering handles as he corkscrewed 2 complete turns, and slammed directly into the chest and legs of another jumper. Both men had open main canopies. Neither of the canopies collapsed or tangled after the impact. (The other jumper was knocked unconscious for a brief period, he regained consciousness and landed.) He was taken to the hospital and his injuries are unknown. He was reported as saying that he saw he on opening and then collided. Another jumper on the load is said to have witnessed the entire collision. The witness followed him down. Following the collision he was seen in a hard spiral all the way to impact. His camera helmet came off on impact. It is not known whether he died in the collision or on landing. Lessons:Not enough information to make any real assessment, but camera flyers should be openning as soon as the group breaks off, thus reducing the liklihood of this scenario. Tracking with the group, particularly if unplanned, can increase the risk of the skydive. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 1/10/1999 Zephyrhills, FL MAL 53 1200 Y/N Description: The deceased left a Twin Otter at 13500’ filming a 4 Way team and practicing his video skills. The team conducted a normal 4 Way jump, he took the center of the sky for opening, but opened somewhat lower than perhaps he normally would, still easily above 2500’ or more. We extracted a great deal of information from his video camera, which was recording the whole time. His Triathlon 160 canopy opened normally other than an off-heading opening and he was seen in his own video, lifting his right arm for the toggles, but his movement was restricted by the swoop cords he was wearing. He was also wearing gloves on top of the swoop cords, since it was a very cold day and it was his first jump of this type with gloves on. He managed to reach the left toggle, probably by lifting his leg as he shifted in the harness to get comfortable, as big guys sometimes do. Once he released the left brake, the canopy began an immediate turn to the right, which accelerated rapidly over the course of the first couple turns. His video then shows him taking off his right hand glove to help reach the right toggle. The glove was seen in the video after he removed it. Then he tried to stop the turn by pulling his left riser, but only slightly, having no effect on the spiral. It is expected that he could not reach the left toggle again, due to a swoop cord under his glove on the left hand (and a wrist mounted altimeter on top of the glove). He then moves to the right hand again to remove the swoop cord, which he did, but he still did not reach the right toggle, either due to the force of the spin, other restriction on his arm. Also, the right glove, removed earlier, had inadvertently been let go and got its Velcro stuck to the toggle Velcro on the right toggle, which may have impeded his ability to get the right toggle. This may have been another ‘curve ball’ thrown at him when he was already getting critically low. Again he tries to stop the turn by pulling the left riser, with no effect. He actually made four attempts to do this, each time having little or no stopping power of the turn. There are a few seconds where not much seems to be happening on the video. We expect he is either confused, perhaps disoriented from the spins, perhaps looking for his cutaway/reserve handles, or perhaps just plain overloaded due to the size of the trees and ground below him. He pulled his cutaway handle at tree top height, almost instantly struck some power lines and then fell to the ground, dying instantly. His freefall after the cutaway was less than 1 second. His reserve handle was never pulled and the Cypres never fired since the rate of descent under the canopy was not sufficient to do so. He did not have an RSL, but that would not have made a difference at the altitude at which he cutaway. He did 11 spirals under the parachute with one brake stowed and his canopy ride was about 43 seconds long in total, most of that spinning. Lessons:1. He put new gloves over top of his swoop cords, effectively tying down his hands. Not a big problem, had he simply removed all that before releasing any brakes. Jack was new to video jumps, and perhaps just did not think of that. 2. He did not have a ‘malfunction’ in the true sense of the word, so his judgement of whether or not to cutaway may have been impaired. He may have thought this was a very simple problem, and perhaps he could fix it. 3. He also may not have thought about the velocity of his spin or the rate of descent, given that he jumped a Triathlon, considered to be relatively docile by today’s standards. 4. A Cypres is not a substitute for an RSL. Had he cutaway with at 300’ with an RSL, he would probably be alive today. His rig was bought used several years ago, and did not come with one. I do not think that he ‘deliberately’ jumped without one, just that he never got around to getting it done. 5. Give all of your problems 2 tries to fix them, and then get out of there. Earlier reaction and detection of a problem would surely have had a different outcome. 6. Any size of a parachute is capable of spinning fast enough to be out of control. His Triathlon was probably losing 200+ feet each revolution. Don’ t assume that any canopy is docile; the deceased was clearly horizontal to the ground for most of the descent QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/1/1999 Rakkestad, Norway MAL 28 550 N/Y Description: After videoing a Tandem, the camera continued to run during the accident. After opening at 3000, the canopy (a Stilleto 135) entered a hard left turn. The deceased never released the left toggle from the riser, and lost track of altitude during the spin. He hit the ground still in a hard left turn. Apparently, he had a fast opening and the slider came down the line rapidly enough to bring the left grommet on the slider over the left toggle. It is not clear when the right toggle was released, or whether the opening or jumper case it to be released. The canopy stayed in a left turn throughout the 44 second canopy flight. The jumper tried to release the left toggle during the entire ride, including from both above and below the slider, but failed to release it before he hit the ground. He did try countering the turn with the right front riser momentarily. No attempt was made to initiate emergency procedures. If you can read Norwegian, see[here] Lessons:This somewhat unique situation is clearly a standard malfunction: inability to control the canopy. When it was impossible to stop the turn after a few tries, the correct approach would likely have been to initiate normal emergency procedures. Keep in mind, even though the canopy is correctly inflated, you do not have a good canopy unless you can also control it. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 6/20/1999 Kingman, KS BIZ 20 200 ?/? Description: On what may have been the sunset load at Skydive Wichita a young jumper with about 200 jumps to his credit and a very experienced skydiver with perhaps two or three thousand jumps were practicing their head-down skills. The young jumper, a few days short of his 21st birthday and current overall, had started getting serious about freeflying in the months before the accident. The experienced jumper, although also current and holding a tandem and AFF rating, was not as experienced at freeflying. The two-way exited the C-182 at 10,000 feet and were flying face-to-face, more or less, and were exchanging handgrips, alternating right-to-right and then left-to-left. At about 6,000 feet the more experienced jumper accidentally snagged the younger jumpers "D" ring and his reserve fired while he was head-down. The younger jumper was also wearing a Sony digital camera on a Bonehead. Anyway, although in extreme pain, the younger jumper landed his reserve canopy and was taken to the local hospital. He and his father and sister (who also are avid skydivers) then went to a major hospital in Wichita. As it turned out, shortening the story considerably, the young jumper had not only fractured some vertebrae in the cervical spine but also ruptured the cerebral artery in the brain stem area. He was declared dead on June 22, 1999 Lessons:This could be an argument for a "pillow" reserve handle, but there are complications with this approach as well, namely a hard pull. A CYPRES mitigates this risk somewhat -- how likely is it that you'll have a malfunction, be unable to pull your reserve, and your CYPRES fails to fire. Again, this is a somewhat heretical approach, but a complicated risk tradeoff is involved here. Smaller reserve D-rings are also an option. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 4/1/2000 Lapalisse, France MAL ?/? Description: After filming an RW jump, this jumper's main pilot chute became entangled in his camera gear. He cutaway the main, but it remained tangled with the helmet. Reserve deployment was initiated, but it entangled with the main. Lessons:It's important to set up camera helmets to minimize the chance of entanglements. It can be helpful to have a quick-release so that any camera-related entanglement can be cleared. Otherwise, a good stable body position and strong throw are especially wise when jumping a camera. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 8/20/2000 Ptuj, Slovenia MAL 30 308 ?/? Description: This skydiver was making a camera jump. He had some sort of malfunction and tried to cutaway, but did not succeed. He deployed his reserve which tangled with the main. He landed with the parachutes in this configuration. Lessons:This incident, coupled with the one in Italy on 8/12 is a good reminder to practice-practice-practice those emergency procedures. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 3/24/2001 Louisburg, NC MAL 34 323 ?/? Description: A four way and a videographer exited a twin otter from 13000'. The videographer filmed the 4-way, which went normally until breakoff. The videographer was supposed to pull from the center at 4000. Members of the 4-way observed him at 2500' with a bag locked main. On the ground, the main suspension lines were found entangled with the eyepiece on the helmet. The reserve pilot chute was entangled with the main, and (apparently?) both stows on the reserve were out. The reserve ripcord had been pulled, and was not found, indicating perhaps a high deployment of the reserve. The cutaway release was found near the hand of the deceased. He had made 55 jumps in the last month, most camera jumps, and was quite current. Lessons:A horseshow malfunction is the most difficult one to handle. Ideally, this jumper would have managed to release his helmet before cutting away or deploying the reserve. However, many helmets are quite difficult to release quickly, and when in the high-stress situation of a malfunction. It is unfortunate that the reserve did not escape the freebag, as the report seems into indicate the reserve lines were not involved in the entanglement. USPA Description: This jumper was videoing a 4-way formation skydive. The plan was for him to deploy at 4,000 feet. Members of the 4-way team observed him at 2,500 feet with a bag-lock malfunction. The deceased was found with main suspension lines wrapped around the eye piece of his camera helmet. The reserve had been delpoyed, and the reserve pilot chute was entangled with the main. The reserve ripcord could not be located, but the cutaway handle was near his hand. USPA Conclusions:The reason for the camera helmet-main canopy entanglement is not known. The evidence indicates that the main was deployed first. The jumper apparently deployed the reserve before the main was released. The main evidently was cut away very late. The correct actions would have been to attempt to clear the camera-canopy entanglement first, altitude permitting, then attempt to cut away the malfunctioned main before deploying the reserve. However, entanglements of this nature present a fast-paced, challenging situation. A jumper must keep altitude in mind to complete the recommended emergency procedures if the initial problem can't be rectified. Camera jumps involve many serious challenges that need to be considered by any jumper contemplating jumping with cameras or any special equipment. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 3/31/2001 Lodi, CA MAL 49 3000 Y/N Description: After videoing a two-way, this jumper experienced a main malfunction (a spinning something-or-other). When she cutaway, her reserve bridle caught on her front-mounted still camera. She had pulled all the handles, and had managed to reserve the helmet before impact. The ring sight tangled with some of the lines, and the locking stows of the freebag did not release. Lessons:Adding anything which can catch lines or fabrics can make this type of problem possible. This incident also shows that cutting away the helmet doesn't always solve the problem. If you wear a helmet with a camera, you are accepting the possibility that this can happen to you -- unless your camera mount is snag-free. USPA Description: This experienced videographer was filming a tandem skydive. The tandem instructor deployed the tandem parachute and then observed the videographer falling away unstable. The videographer then deployed her main canopy while still unstable, which resulted in a main canopy malfunction. The main was released, and the reserve was deployed as she continued to fall unstable. The reserve canopy never came out of the freebag, and she continued to tumble all the way to impact. Post-accident inspection reveleaed that the reserve bridle had entangled with her camera helmet and subsequently choked off the reserve lines, preventing the reserve from clearing the freebag. USPA Conclusions:This jumper had experienced previous stability problems, in particular, instability following a cutaway while wearing a camera. Stability becomes more important to proper parachute delpoyment when the jumper is wearing cameras or other special equipment that could lead to an entanglement. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/31/2003 Räyskälä, Finland NOP,BIZ 32 800 N/N Description: Preliminary information, the accident will be fully investigated and information updated. After an uneventful 3-way freefly skydive the jumper was observed to release her main canopy soon after opening because of a yet unknown malfunction. The jumper fell to ground in unstable position, and impacted back to earth. The reserve handle was found still in it's pouch. She was wearing a camera helmet, so it's considered possible, that it may have had a effect on this incident. Just some light reading, please be careful, AND have fun.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Icon134 0 #17 January 17, 2006 Quoteand what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it Like others have said... there's good information in the SIM. You can also find a FAQ in the Photo and Video Forum. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I believe the BSR in the SIM is 200 jumps and a C-license. (unless it was changed in the 06 version) ScottLivin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #18 January 18, 2006 thanks for taking the time to find those reports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #19 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteand what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it Like others have said... there's good information in the SIM. You can also find a FAQ in the Photo and Video Forum. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I believe the BSR in the SIM is 200 jumps and a C-license. (unless it was changed in the 06 version) Scott Thanks for finding that.. I'll follow the rules and wait till I have my C and 200 jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #20 January 18, 2006 QuoteI'll follow the rules Quote[Wink] Sigh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattyblast 0 #21 January 18, 2006 QuoteHaven't you seen the ad in Parachutist? All you really need to do is buy the Samsung, and then wear it on that cool looking headband. What could possibly go wrong? That Samsung camera is a great little device, and it even has a picture of a skydiver on the box it comes in. But that headband is blech (as your sarcasm correctly asserts). That thing would slip off of any helmet during the walk to the airplane. I wish Samsung would have consulted with some experienced videographers before showing that headband in the ad."DOOR!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #22 January 18, 2006 And I wish Parachutist had considered the ramifications of an add like that without a disclaimer.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,471 #23 January 18, 2006 >thanks for the solution. . . It's a good solution, but it's the solution to the wrong problem. Doing video is like doing demos. I can't count the number of people who got hurt on the old 'wide open demos' we did 15 years ago. "Don't worry! It's bigger than our freaking DZ! No problem; you've got a C license!" And people would consistently pound in, break their legs, end up in trees, in the ocean etc. Why did this happen? Was it because they were jumping flags, or smoke, or the spot was bad? No. It was because their focus was different. They were performing for a crowd. They were looking around a lot more. They were trying to "look good" when they landed. They were trying to give people a show. Sure, we could give the streamers and the smoke to the most experienced demo jumpers - but that was solving the wrong problem. The problem was that someone with 112 jumps wasn't ready for the additional workload of demos, period. Years ago I had a chest-mount camera and I was doing 120-ways; figured I could get some cool video. Now, it's just a camera, right? Turn it on and forget about it, right? Heck, I don't even have to aim it since it was mounted on my chest! What could go wrong? And on the first jump on this particular bigway with that system, I collided with someone. Afterwards I tried to figure out what had gone wrong. Was it the camera changing my aerodynamics? Or the extra weight? Nope. It was that in the back of my mind I knew that if I was over just five more feet I'd get this great shot. And I did not have enough experience to deal with that AND fly well in a 100-way. Now, maybe at 65+ jumps you have better awareness than I had at 1200. Not impossible; I was a slow learner. But there is a chance that you may have the same problems I did - plus you have to aim your camera. All the good equipment advice in the world won't make up for the fact that your concentration is no longer on a safe skydive, it's on getting the shot. Only experience will give you the awareness to do that safely. And who knows? Maybe you will luck out and be OK. But I would think _very_ carefully about whether that's something you want to chance right now - because with video, you might just take someone else out too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jasonRose 0 #24 January 18, 2006 QuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #25 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. I found out the issue with the camera.. THere is a message board for this camera.. I have it on my work computer and I'll send it to you tomorrow.. The issue is in the presure change.. it does something to the little button on the cord and kills the recording.. If you test it you'll see that if you turn it on with the door open.. it should work.. anyway.. I'll send you the link.. and my instructors told me to have fun.. and Billvon has a lot of good points.. so Im going to meet them in the middle and get some more experience before I get my own to play with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
johnny1488 1 #10 January 17, 2006 I think the idea should be to tell the jumper with 65 jumps to not jump a camera rather than tell the jumper with 65 jumps to disconnect their rsl. A lot more jumpers go in from not getting a canopy over their head than camera helmet entanglements. But 65 jumps is no place to be testing this theory. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niu 0 #11 January 17, 2006 Quote many people like myself can hear those better than .."you have no business" with no solution. A little late for that since you`ve obviously already started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #12 January 17, 2006 QuoteQuote many people like myself can hear those better than .."you have no business" with no solution. A little late for that since you`ve obviously already started. You know.. Honestly I would re think it and wait if I could come up with a situation that would keep me from being under my canopy. I did do it.. A couple times and at that time.. couldn’t think of something that could go wrong.. And either could the instructors that I jumped with. Having said that.. again I would re consider.. but the previous post was a little harsh.. He could have taken 3 more minutes and said “why” instead of barking an order.. So thanks for taking the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #13 January 17, 2006 QuoteI just couldnt think of it at the time.. That's the problem. You haven't thought about it. This is not a sport to be trying new stuff without thinking through the ramifications. Do a search on "starting camera." It'll surely come up with some posts because I know I've seen this issue discussed before. I bet there's even more in the Photography and Video forum. You know where else it is? The SIM. An imperfect document to be sure, and sometimes a little hard to read, but a very good place to start. There's a whole section on camera flying recommendations."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #14 January 17, 2006 You might take a look at what the SIM recommends in terms of jump numbers before jumping a camera. If I recall it has some explanation on why too. Best of luck to you. Blues, Ron (the nicely dressed one)"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #15 January 17, 2006 Thats what I was going to suggest after realizing I didn't give the right answer. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #16 January 17, 2006 QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 1/20/1996 Sunstate Freefall, FL EXC,CCOL 43 4300 ?/? Description: Two jumpers were under canopy. One was jumping a banner. The other was filming. The cameraman in maneuvering contacted the banner, and a "wrap" followed. They were heard to be discussing the situation. At an alt. of aprox 600 feet the cameraman told the other jumper to "cutaway". The jumper deployed his reserve and when it reached line-stretch proceeded to cutaway. He got an open reserve at aprox 10 to 20 feet. The cameraman was still with the "mess" which reportedly equaled less than half a canopy and was spinning. The cameraman cutaway at aprox. 100-150 feet and impacted the ground shortly afterward. Lessons:Filming someone who is making an exceptional skydive makes things more complicated for the cameraman. It's important to remain altitude aware even after a canopy collision. Cutting away below 500ft or so is rarely a good idea. An AAD would not have changed the outcome. Skydiving reports that no banner was involved in this jump, and that the alititude of the cutaway is unknown QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/30/1997 Cross Keys, NJ CRW 32 2000 ?/? Description: While videoing a 2-way CRW jump, a wrap occured at about 4000' between the camera flyer and another dive participant. The deceased cutaway, but the slider stowed behind his head became caught on part of his camera helmet and thus his main failed to seperate. The reserve became entangled with the main and he hit the ground hard. He was alert and concious that evening, but died of internal injuries the next morning while in surgery. The deceased was taking part in as well as or videoing the CRW dive. He was likely jumping a Jedei, which is not a canopy designed for CRW. He indicated he had to deploy the reserve because lines were around his neck and he was starting to pass out. Lessons:While it may appear the deceased did "everything right", a slider stowed behind the head both obscures vision and can hamper a clean cutaway in the event of a canopy collision (CRW related or not.) If a camera helmet has exposed surfaces on which a line, riser, bridle or other canopy component could become snagged, it is helpful if the helmet may be cutaway. Flying a camera, particularly in CRW formations, always presents some additional hazards. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/10/1998 Las Vegas, NV CCOL 34 3600 ?/? Description: This was the first load of the day. The deceased was filming an 8 way, birthday load. According to reports, there was not much separation at break off. After breakoff at 4000ft, he did not deploy in place, as had been the plan. But instead, several witnesses said that they saw him start tracking in the same direction as the other fun jumpers. He was seen waving off and pulling directly above another fun jumper. Several witnesses from the ground, and from the air, saw his canopy open in a severe spin. It appeared that he was trying to unstow his steering handles as he corkscrewed 2 complete turns, and slammed directly into the chest and legs of another jumper. Both men had open main canopies. Neither of the canopies collapsed or tangled after the impact. (The other jumper was knocked unconscious for a brief period, he regained consciousness and landed.) He was taken to the hospital and his injuries are unknown. He was reported as saying that he saw he on opening and then collided. Another jumper on the load is said to have witnessed the entire collision. The witness followed him down. Following the collision he was seen in a hard spiral all the way to impact. His camera helmet came off on impact. It is not known whether he died in the collision or on landing. Lessons:Not enough information to make any real assessment, but camera flyers should be openning as soon as the group breaks off, thus reducing the liklihood of this scenario. Tracking with the group, particularly if unplanned, can increase the risk of the skydive. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 1/10/1999 Zephyrhills, FL MAL 53 1200 Y/N Description: The deceased left a Twin Otter at 13500’ filming a 4 Way team and practicing his video skills. The team conducted a normal 4 Way jump, he took the center of the sky for opening, but opened somewhat lower than perhaps he normally would, still easily above 2500’ or more. We extracted a great deal of information from his video camera, which was recording the whole time. His Triathlon 160 canopy opened normally other than an off-heading opening and he was seen in his own video, lifting his right arm for the toggles, but his movement was restricted by the swoop cords he was wearing. He was also wearing gloves on top of the swoop cords, since it was a very cold day and it was his first jump of this type with gloves on. He managed to reach the left toggle, probably by lifting his leg as he shifted in the harness to get comfortable, as big guys sometimes do. Once he released the left brake, the canopy began an immediate turn to the right, which accelerated rapidly over the course of the first couple turns. His video then shows him taking off his right hand glove to help reach the right toggle. The glove was seen in the video after he removed it. Then he tried to stop the turn by pulling his left riser, but only slightly, having no effect on the spiral. It is expected that he could not reach the left toggle again, due to a swoop cord under his glove on the left hand (and a wrist mounted altimeter on top of the glove). He then moves to the right hand again to remove the swoop cord, which he did, but he still did not reach the right toggle, either due to the force of the spin, other restriction on his arm. Also, the right glove, removed earlier, had inadvertently been let go and got its Velcro stuck to the toggle Velcro on the right toggle, which may have impeded his ability to get the right toggle. This may have been another ‘curve ball’ thrown at him when he was already getting critically low. Again he tries to stop the turn by pulling the left riser, with no effect. He actually made four attempts to do this, each time having little or no stopping power of the turn. There are a few seconds where not much seems to be happening on the video. We expect he is either confused, perhaps disoriented from the spins, perhaps looking for his cutaway/reserve handles, or perhaps just plain overloaded due to the size of the trees and ground below him. He pulled his cutaway handle at tree top height, almost instantly struck some power lines and then fell to the ground, dying instantly. His freefall after the cutaway was less than 1 second. His reserve handle was never pulled and the Cypres never fired since the rate of descent under the canopy was not sufficient to do so. He did not have an RSL, but that would not have made a difference at the altitude at which he cutaway. He did 11 spirals under the parachute with one brake stowed and his canopy ride was about 43 seconds long in total, most of that spinning. Lessons:1. He put new gloves over top of his swoop cords, effectively tying down his hands. Not a big problem, had he simply removed all that before releasing any brakes. Jack was new to video jumps, and perhaps just did not think of that. 2. He did not have a ‘malfunction’ in the true sense of the word, so his judgement of whether or not to cutaway may have been impaired. He may have thought this was a very simple problem, and perhaps he could fix it. 3. He also may not have thought about the velocity of his spin or the rate of descent, given that he jumped a Triathlon, considered to be relatively docile by today’s standards. 4. A Cypres is not a substitute for an RSL. Had he cutaway with at 300’ with an RSL, he would probably be alive today. His rig was bought used several years ago, and did not come with one. I do not think that he ‘deliberately’ jumped without one, just that he never got around to getting it done. 5. Give all of your problems 2 tries to fix them, and then get out of there. Earlier reaction and detection of a problem would surely have had a different outcome. 6. Any size of a parachute is capable of spinning fast enough to be out of control. His Triathlon was probably losing 200+ feet each revolution. Don’ t assume that any canopy is docile; the deceased was clearly horizontal to the ground for most of the descent QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/1/1999 Rakkestad, Norway MAL 28 550 N/Y Description: After videoing a Tandem, the camera continued to run during the accident. After opening at 3000, the canopy (a Stilleto 135) entered a hard left turn. The deceased never released the left toggle from the riser, and lost track of altitude during the spin. He hit the ground still in a hard left turn. Apparently, he had a fast opening and the slider came down the line rapidly enough to bring the left grommet on the slider over the left toggle. It is not clear when the right toggle was released, or whether the opening or jumper case it to be released. The canopy stayed in a left turn throughout the 44 second canopy flight. The jumper tried to release the left toggle during the entire ride, including from both above and below the slider, but failed to release it before he hit the ground. He did try countering the turn with the right front riser momentarily. No attempt was made to initiate emergency procedures. If you can read Norwegian, see[here] Lessons:This somewhat unique situation is clearly a standard malfunction: inability to control the canopy. When it was impossible to stop the turn after a few tries, the correct approach would likely have been to initiate normal emergency procedures. Keep in mind, even though the canopy is correctly inflated, you do not have a good canopy unless you can also control it. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 6/20/1999 Kingman, KS BIZ 20 200 ?/? Description: On what may have been the sunset load at Skydive Wichita a young jumper with about 200 jumps to his credit and a very experienced skydiver with perhaps two or three thousand jumps were practicing their head-down skills. The young jumper, a few days short of his 21st birthday and current overall, had started getting serious about freeflying in the months before the accident. The experienced jumper, although also current and holding a tandem and AFF rating, was not as experienced at freeflying. The two-way exited the C-182 at 10,000 feet and were flying face-to-face, more or less, and were exchanging handgrips, alternating right-to-right and then left-to-left. At about 6,000 feet the more experienced jumper accidentally snagged the younger jumpers "D" ring and his reserve fired while he was head-down. The younger jumper was also wearing a Sony digital camera on a Bonehead. Anyway, although in extreme pain, the younger jumper landed his reserve canopy and was taken to the local hospital. He and his father and sister (who also are avid skydivers) then went to a major hospital in Wichita. As it turned out, shortening the story considerably, the young jumper had not only fractured some vertebrae in the cervical spine but also ruptured the cerebral artery in the brain stem area. He was declared dead on June 22, 1999 Lessons:This could be an argument for a "pillow" reserve handle, but there are complications with this approach as well, namely a hard pull. A CYPRES mitigates this risk somewhat -- how likely is it that you'll have a malfunction, be unable to pull your reserve, and your CYPRES fails to fire. Again, this is a somewhat heretical approach, but a complicated risk tradeoff is involved here. Smaller reserve D-rings are also an option. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 4/1/2000 Lapalisse, France MAL ?/? Description: After filming an RW jump, this jumper's main pilot chute became entangled in his camera gear. He cutaway the main, but it remained tangled with the helmet. Reserve deployment was initiated, but it entangled with the main. Lessons:It's important to set up camera helmets to minimize the chance of entanglements. It can be helpful to have a quick-release so that any camera-related entanglement can be cleared. Otherwise, a good stable body position and strong throw are especially wise when jumping a camera. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 8/20/2000 Ptuj, Slovenia MAL 30 308 ?/? Description: This skydiver was making a camera jump. He had some sort of malfunction and tried to cutaway, but did not succeed. He deployed his reserve which tangled with the main. He landed with the parachutes in this configuration. Lessons:This incident, coupled with the one in Italy on 8/12 is a good reminder to practice-practice-practice those emergency procedures. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 3/24/2001 Louisburg, NC MAL 34 323 ?/? Description: A four way and a videographer exited a twin otter from 13000'. The videographer filmed the 4-way, which went normally until breakoff. The videographer was supposed to pull from the center at 4000. Members of the 4-way observed him at 2500' with a bag locked main. On the ground, the main suspension lines were found entangled with the eyepiece on the helmet. The reserve pilot chute was entangled with the main, and (apparently?) both stows on the reserve were out. The reserve ripcord had been pulled, and was not found, indicating perhaps a high deployment of the reserve. The cutaway release was found near the hand of the deceased. He had made 55 jumps in the last month, most camera jumps, and was quite current. Lessons:A horseshow malfunction is the most difficult one to handle. Ideally, this jumper would have managed to release his helmet before cutting away or deploying the reserve. However, many helmets are quite difficult to release quickly, and when in the high-stress situation of a malfunction. It is unfortunate that the reserve did not escape the freebag, as the report seems into indicate the reserve lines were not involved in the entanglement. USPA Description: This jumper was videoing a 4-way formation skydive. The plan was for him to deploy at 4,000 feet. Members of the 4-way team observed him at 2,500 feet with a bag-lock malfunction. The deceased was found with main suspension lines wrapped around the eye piece of his camera helmet. The reserve had been delpoyed, and the reserve pilot chute was entangled with the main. The reserve ripcord could not be located, but the cutaway handle was near his hand. USPA Conclusions:The reason for the camera helmet-main canopy entanglement is not known. The evidence indicates that the main was deployed first. The jumper apparently deployed the reserve before the main was released. The main evidently was cut away very late. The correct actions would have been to attempt to clear the camera-canopy entanglement first, altitude permitting, then attempt to cut away the malfunctioned main before deploying the reserve. However, entanglements of this nature present a fast-paced, challenging situation. A jumper must keep altitude in mind to complete the recommended emergency procedures if the initial problem can't be rectified. Camera jumps involve many serious challenges that need to be considered by any jumper contemplating jumping with cameras or any special equipment. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 3/31/2001 Lodi, CA MAL 49 3000 Y/N Description: After videoing a two-way, this jumper experienced a main malfunction (a spinning something-or-other). When she cutaway, her reserve bridle caught on her front-mounted still camera. She had pulled all the handles, and had managed to reserve the helmet before impact. The ring sight tangled with some of the lines, and the locking stows of the freebag did not release. Lessons:Adding anything which can catch lines or fabrics can make this type of problem possible. This incident also shows that cutting away the helmet doesn't always solve the problem. If you wear a helmet with a camera, you are accepting the possibility that this can happen to you -- unless your camera mount is snag-free. USPA Description: This experienced videographer was filming a tandem skydive. The tandem instructor deployed the tandem parachute and then observed the videographer falling away unstable. The videographer then deployed her main canopy while still unstable, which resulted in a main canopy malfunction. The main was released, and the reserve was deployed as she continued to fall unstable. The reserve canopy never came out of the freebag, and she continued to tumble all the way to impact. Post-accident inspection reveleaed that the reserve bridle had entangled with her camera helmet and subsequently choked off the reserve lines, preventing the reserve from clearing the freebag. USPA Conclusions:This jumper had experienced previous stability problems, in particular, instability following a cutaway while wearing a camera. Stability becomes more important to proper parachute delpoyment when the jumper is wearing cameras or other special equipment that could lead to an entanglement. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/31/2003 Räyskälä, Finland NOP,BIZ 32 800 N/N Description: Preliminary information, the accident will be fully investigated and information updated. After an uneventful 3-way freefly skydive the jumper was observed to release her main canopy soon after opening because of a yet unknown malfunction. The jumper fell to ground in unstable position, and impacted back to earth. The reserve handle was found still in it's pouch. She was wearing a camera helmet, so it's considered possible, that it may have had a effect on this incident. Just some light reading, please be careful, AND have fun.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Icon134 0 #17 January 17, 2006 Quoteand what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it Like others have said... there's good information in the SIM. You can also find a FAQ in the Photo and Video Forum. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I believe the BSR in the SIM is 200 jumps and a C-license. (unless it was changed in the 06 version) ScottLivin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #18 January 18, 2006 thanks for taking the time to find those reports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #19 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteand what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it Like others have said... there's good information in the SIM. You can also find a FAQ in the Photo and Video Forum. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I believe the BSR in the SIM is 200 jumps and a C-license. (unless it was changed in the 06 version) Scott Thanks for finding that.. I'll follow the rules and wait till I have my C and 200 jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #20 January 18, 2006 QuoteI'll follow the rules Quote[Wink] Sigh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattyblast 0 #21 January 18, 2006 QuoteHaven't you seen the ad in Parachutist? All you really need to do is buy the Samsung, and then wear it on that cool looking headband. What could possibly go wrong? That Samsung camera is a great little device, and it even has a picture of a skydiver on the box it comes in. But that headband is blech (as your sarcasm correctly asserts). That thing would slip off of any helmet during the walk to the airplane. I wish Samsung would have consulted with some experienced videographers before showing that headband in the ad."DOOR!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #22 January 18, 2006 And I wish Parachutist had considered the ramifications of an add like that without a disclaimer.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,471 #23 January 18, 2006 >thanks for the solution. . . It's a good solution, but it's the solution to the wrong problem. Doing video is like doing demos. I can't count the number of people who got hurt on the old 'wide open demos' we did 15 years ago. "Don't worry! It's bigger than our freaking DZ! No problem; you've got a C license!" And people would consistently pound in, break their legs, end up in trees, in the ocean etc. Why did this happen? Was it because they were jumping flags, or smoke, or the spot was bad? No. It was because their focus was different. They were performing for a crowd. They were looking around a lot more. They were trying to "look good" when they landed. They were trying to give people a show. Sure, we could give the streamers and the smoke to the most experienced demo jumpers - but that was solving the wrong problem. The problem was that someone with 112 jumps wasn't ready for the additional workload of demos, period. Years ago I had a chest-mount camera and I was doing 120-ways; figured I could get some cool video. Now, it's just a camera, right? Turn it on and forget about it, right? Heck, I don't even have to aim it since it was mounted on my chest! What could go wrong? And on the first jump on this particular bigway with that system, I collided with someone. Afterwards I tried to figure out what had gone wrong. Was it the camera changing my aerodynamics? Or the extra weight? Nope. It was that in the back of my mind I knew that if I was over just five more feet I'd get this great shot. And I did not have enough experience to deal with that AND fly well in a 100-way. Now, maybe at 65+ jumps you have better awareness than I had at 1200. Not impossible; I was a slow learner. But there is a chance that you may have the same problems I did - plus you have to aim your camera. All the good equipment advice in the world won't make up for the fact that your concentration is no longer on a safe skydive, it's on getting the shot. Only experience will give you the awareness to do that safely. And who knows? Maybe you will luck out and be OK. But I would think _very_ carefully about whether that's something you want to chance right now - because with video, you might just take someone else out too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jasonRose 0 #24 January 18, 2006 QuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #25 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. I found out the issue with the camera.. THere is a message board for this camera.. I have it on my work computer and I'll send it to you tomorrow.. The issue is in the presure change.. it does something to the little button on the cord and kills the recording.. If you test it you'll see that if you turn it on with the door open.. it should work.. anyway.. I'll send you the link.. and my instructors told me to have fun.. and Billvon has a lot of good points.. so Im going to meet them in the middle and get some more experience before I get my own to play with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Jackpunx 0 #12 January 17, 2006 QuoteQuote many people like myself can hear those better than .."you have no business" with no solution. A little late for that since you`ve obviously already started. You know.. Honestly I would re think it and wait if I could come up with a situation that would keep me from being under my canopy. I did do it.. A couple times and at that time.. couldn’t think of something that could go wrong.. And either could the instructors that I jumped with. Having said that.. again I would re consider.. but the previous post was a little harsh.. He could have taken 3 more minutes and said “why” instead of barking an order.. So thanks for taking the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #13 January 17, 2006 QuoteI just couldnt think of it at the time.. That's the problem. You haven't thought about it. This is not a sport to be trying new stuff without thinking through the ramifications. Do a search on "starting camera." It'll surely come up with some posts because I know I've seen this issue discussed before. I bet there's even more in the Photography and Video forum. You know where else it is? The SIM. An imperfect document to be sure, and sometimes a little hard to read, but a very good place to start. There's a whole section on camera flying recommendations."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #14 January 17, 2006 You might take a look at what the SIM recommends in terms of jump numbers before jumping a camera. If I recall it has some explanation on why too. Best of luck to you. Blues, Ron (the nicely dressed one)"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #15 January 17, 2006 Thats what I was going to suggest after realizing I didn't give the right answer. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #16 January 17, 2006 QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 1/20/1996 Sunstate Freefall, FL EXC,CCOL 43 4300 ?/? Description: Two jumpers were under canopy. One was jumping a banner. The other was filming. The cameraman in maneuvering contacted the banner, and a "wrap" followed. They were heard to be discussing the situation. At an alt. of aprox 600 feet the cameraman told the other jumper to "cutaway". The jumper deployed his reserve and when it reached line-stretch proceeded to cutaway. He got an open reserve at aprox 10 to 20 feet. The cameraman was still with the "mess" which reportedly equaled less than half a canopy and was spinning. The cameraman cutaway at aprox. 100-150 feet and impacted the ground shortly afterward. Lessons:Filming someone who is making an exceptional skydive makes things more complicated for the cameraman. It's important to remain altitude aware even after a canopy collision. Cutting away below 500ft or so is rarely a good idea. An AAD would not have changed the outcome. Skydiving reports that no banner was involved in this jump, and that the alititude of the cutaway is unknown QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/30/1997 Cross Keys, NJ CRW 32 2000 ?/? Description: While videoing a 2-way CRW jump, a wrap occured at about 4000' between the camera flyer and another dive participant. The deceased cutaway, but the slider stowed behind his head became caught on part of his camera helmet and thus his main failed to seperate. The reserve became entangled with the main and he hit the ground hard. He was alert and concious that evening, but died of internal injuries the next morning while in surgery. The deceased was taking part in as well as or videoing the CRW dive. He was likely jumping a Jedei, which is not a canopy designed for CRW. He indicated he had to deploy the reserve because lines were around his neck and he was starting to pass out. Lessons:While it may appear the deceased did "everything right", a slider stowed behind the head both obscures vision and can hamper a clean cutaway in the event of a canopy collision (CRW related or not.) If a camera helmet has exposed surfaces on which a line, riser, bridle or other canopy component could become snagged, it is helpful if the helmet may be cutaway. Flying a camera, particularly in CRW formations, always presents some additional hazards. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/10/1998 Las Vegas, NV CCOL 34 3600 ?/? Description: This was the first load of the day. The deceased was filming an 8 way, birthday load. According to reports, there was not much separation at break off. After breakoff at 4000ft, he did not deploy in place, as had been the plan. But instead, several witnesses said that they saw him start tracking in the same direction as the other fun jumpers. He was seen waving off and pulling directly above another fun jumper. Several witnesses from the ground, and from the air, saw his canopy open in a severe spin. It appeared that he was trying to unstow his steering handles as he corkscrewed 2 complete turns, and slammed directly into the chest and legs of another jumper. Both men had open main canopies. Neither of the canopies collapsed or tangled after the impact. (The other jumper was knocked unconscious for a brief period, he regained consciousness and landed.) He was taken to the hospital and his injuries are unknown. He was reported as saying that he saw he on opening and then collided. Another jumper on the load is said to have witnessed the entire collision. The witness followed him down. Following the collision he was seen in a hard spiral all the way to impact. His camera helmet came off on impact. It is not known whether he died in the collision or on landing. Lessons:Not enough information to make any real assessment, but camera flyers should be openning as soon as the group breaks off, thus reducing the liklihood of this scenario. Tracking with the group, particularly if unplanned, can increase the risk of the skydive. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 1/10/1999 Zephyrhills, FL MAL 53 1200 Y/N Description: The deceased left a Twin Otter at 13500’ filming a 4 Way team and practicing his video skills. The team conducted a normal 4 Way jump, he took the center of the sky for opening, but opened somewhat lower than perhaps he normally would, still easily above 2500’ or more. We extracted a great deal of information from his video camera, which was recording the whole time. His Triathlon 160 canopy opened normally other than an off-heading opening and he was seen in his own video, lifting his right arm for the toggles, but his movement was restricted by the swoop cords he was wearing. He was also wearing gloves on top of the swoop cords, since it was a very cold day and it was his first jump of this type with gloves on. He managed to reach the left toggle, probably by lifting his leg as he shifted in the harness to get comfortable, as big guys sometimes do. Once he released the left brake, the canopy began an immediate turn to the right, which accelerated rapidly over the course of the first couple turns. His video then shows him taking off his right hand glove to help reach the right toggle. The glove was seen in the video after he removed it. Then he tried to stop the turn by pulling his left riser, but only slightly, having no effect on the spiral. It is expected that he could not reach the left toggle again, due to a swoop cord under his glove on the left hand (and a wrist mounted altimeter on top of the glove). He then moves to the right hand again to remove the swoop cord, which he did, but he still did not reach the right toggle, either due to the force of the spin, other restriction on his arm. Also, the right glove, removed earlier, had inadvertently been let go and got its Velcro stuck to the toggle Velcro on the right toggle, which may have impeded his ability to get the right toggle. This may have been another ‘curve ball’ thrown at him when he was already getting critically low. Again he tries to stop the turn by pulling the left riser, with no effect. He actually made four attempts to do this, each time having little or no stopping power of the turn. There are a few seconds where not much seems to be happening on the video. We expect he is either confused, perhaps disoriented from the spins, perhaps looking for his cutaway/reserve handles, or perhaps just plain overloaded due to the size of the trees and ground below him. He pulled his cutaway handle at tree top height, almost instantly struck some power lines and then fell to the ground, dying instantly. His freefall after the cutaway was less than 1 second. His reserve handle was never pulled and the Cypres never fired since the rate of descent under the canopy was not sufficient to do so. He did not have an RSL, but that would not have made a difference at the altitude at which he cutaway. He did 11 spirals under the parachute with one brake stowed and his canopy ride was about 43 seconds long in total, most of that spinning. Lessons:1. He put new gloves over top of his swoop cords, effectively tying down his hands. Not a big problem, had he simply removed all that before releasing any brakes. Jack was new to video jumps, and perhaps just did not think of that. 2. He did not have a ‘malfunction’ in the true sense of the word, so his judgement of whether or not to cutaway may have been impaired. He may have thought this was a very simple problem, and perhaps he could fix it. 3. He also may not have thought about the velocity of his spin or the rate of descent, given that he jumped a Triathlon, considered to be relatively docile by today’s standards. 4. A Cypres is not a substitute for an RSL. Had he cutaway with at 300’ with an RSL, he would probably be alive today. His rig was bought used several years ago, and did not come with one. I do not think that he ‘deliberately’ jumped without one, just that he never got around to getting it done. 5. Give all of your problems 2 tries to fix them, and then get out of there. Earlier reaction and detection of a problem would surely have had a different outcome. 6. Any size of a parachute is capable of spinning fast enough to be out of control. His Triathlon was probably losing 200+ feet each revolution. Don’ t assume that any canopy is docile; the deceased was clearly horizontal to the ground for most of the descent QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/1/1999 Rakkestad, Norway MAL 28 550 N/Y Description: After videoing a Tandem, the camera continued to run during the accident. After opening at 3000, the canopy (a Stilleto 135) entered a hard left turn. The deceased never released the left toggle from the riser, and lost track of altitude during the spin. He hit the ground still in a hard left turn. Apparently, he had a fast opening and the slider came down the line rapidly enough to bring the left grommet on the slider over the left toggle. It is not clear when the right toggle was released, or whether the opening or jumper case it to be released. The canopy stayed in a left turn throughout the 44 second canopy flight. The jumper tried to release the left toggle during the entire ride, including from both above and below the slider, but failed to release it before he hit the ground. He did try countering the turn with the right front riser momentarily. No attempt was made to initiate emergency procedures. If you can read Norwegian, see[here] Lessons:This somewhat unique situation is clearly a standard malfunction: inability to control the canopy. When it was impossible to stop the turn after a few tries, the correct approach would likely have been to initiate normal emergency procedures. Keep in mind, even though the canopy is correctly inflated, you do not have a good canopy unless you can also control it. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 6/20/1999 Kingman, KS BIZ 20 200 ?/? Description: On what may have been the sunset load at Skydive Wichita a young jumper with about 200 jumps to his credit and a very experienced skydiver with perhaps two or three thousand jumps were practicing their head-down skills. The young jumper, a few days short of his 21st birthday and current overall, had started getting serious about freeflying in the months before the accident. The experienced jumper, although also current and holding a tandem and AFF rating, was not as experienced at freeflying. The two-way exited the C-182 at 10,000 feet and were flying face-to-face, more or less, and were exchanging handgrips, alternating right-to-right and then left-to-left. At about 6,000 feet the more experienced jumper accidentally snagged the younger jumpers "D" ring and his reserve fired while he was head-down. The younger jumper was also wearing a Sony digital camera on a Bonehead. Anyway, although in extreme pain, the younger jumper landed his reserve canopy and was taken to the local hospital. He and his father and sister (who also are avid skydivers) then went to a major hospital in Wichita. As it turned out, shortening the story considerably, the young jumper had not only fractured some vertebrae in the cervical spine but also ruptured the cerebral artery in the brain stem area. He was declared dead on June 22, 1999 Lessons:This could be an argument for a "pillow" reserve handle, but there are complications with this approach as well, namely a hard pull. A CYPRES mitigates this risk somewhat -- how likely is it that you'll have a malfunction, be unable to pull your reserve, and your CYPRES fails to fire. Again, this is a somewhat heretical approach, but a complicated risk tradeoff is involved here. Smaller reserve D-rings are also an option. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 4/1/2000 Lapalisse, France MAL ?/? Description: After filming an RW jump, this jumper's main pilot chute became entangled in his camera gear. He cutaway the main, but it remained tangled with the helmet. Reserve deployment was initiated, but it entangled with the main. Lessons:It's important to set up camera helmets to minimize the chance of entanglements. It can be helpful to have a quick-release so that any camera-related entanglement can be cleared. Otherwise, a good stable body position and strong throw are especially wise when jumping a camera. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 8/20/2000 Ptuj, Slovenia MAL 30 308 ?/? Description: This skydiver was making a camera jump. He had some sort of malfunction and tried to cutaway, but did not succeed. He deployed his reserve which tangled with the main. He landed with the parachutes in this configuration. Lessons:This incident, coupled with the one in Italy on 8/12 is a good reminder to practice-practice-practice those emergency procedures. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 3/24/2001 Louisburg, NC MAL 34 323 ?/? Description: A four way and a videographer exited a twin otter from 13000'. The videographer filmed the 4-way, which went normally until breakoff. The videographer was supposed to pull from the center at 4000. Members of the 4-way observed him at 2500' with a bag locked main. On the ground, the main suspension lines were found entangled with the eyepiece on the helmet. The reserve pilot chute was entangled with the main, and (apparently?) both stows on the reserve were out. The reserve ripcord had been pulled, and was not found, indicating perhaps a high deployment of the reserve. The cutaway release was found near the hand of the deceased. He had made 55 jumps in the last month, most camera jumps, and was quite current. Lessons:A horseshow malfunction is the most difficult one to handle. Ideally, this jumper would have managed to release his helmet before cutting away or deploying the reserve. However, many helmets are quite difficult to release quickly, and when in the high-stress situation of a malfunction. It is unfortunate that the reserve did not escape the freebag, as the report seems into indicate the reserve lines were not involved in the entanglement. USPA Description: This jumper was videoing a 4-way formation skydive. The plan was for him to deploy at 4,000 feet. Members of the 4-way team observed him at 2,500 feet with a bag-lock malfunction. The deceased was found with main suspension lines wrapped around the eye piece of his camera helmet. The reserve had been delpoyed, and the reserve pilot chute was entangled with the main. The reserve ripcord could not be located, but the cutaway handle was near his hand. USPA Conclusions:The reason for the camera helmet-main canopy entanglement is not known. The evidence indicates that the main was deployed first. The jumper apparently deployed the reserve before the main was released. The main evidently was cut away very late. The correct actions would have been to attempt to clear the camera-canopy entanglement first, altitude permitting, then attempt to cut away the malfunctioned main before deploying the reserve. However, entanglements of this nature present a fast-paced, challenging situation. A jumper must keep altitude in mind to complete the recommended emergency procedures if the initial problem can't be rectified. Camera jumps involve many serious challenges that need to be considered by any jumper contemplating jumping with cameras or any special equipment. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 3/31/2001 Lodi, CA MAL 49 3000 Y/N Description: After videoing a two-way, this jumper experienced a main malfunction (a spinning something-or-other). When she cutaway, her reserve bridle caught on her front-mounted still camera. She had pulled all the handles, and had managed to reserve the helmet before impact. The ring sight tangled with some of the lines, and the locking stows of the freebag did not release. Lessons:Adding anything which can catch lines or fabrics can make this type of problem possible. This incident also shows that cutting away the helmet doesn't always solve the problem. If you wear a helmet with a camera, you are accepting the possibility that this can happen to you -- unless your camera mount is snag-free. USPA Description: This experienced videographer was filming a tandem skydive. The tandem instructor deployed the tandem parachute and then observed the videographer falling away unstable. The videographer then deployed her main canopy while still unstable, which resulted in a main canopy malfunction. The main was released, and the reserve was deployed as she continued to fall unstable. The reserve canopy never came out of the freebag, and she continued to tumble all the way to impact. Post-accident inspection reveleaed that the reserve bridle had entangled with her camera helmet and subsequently choked off the reserve lines, preventing the reserve from clearing the freebag. USPA Conclusions:This jumper had experienced previous stability problems, in particular, instability following a cutaway while wearing a camera. Stability becomes more important to proper parachute delpoyment when the jumper is wearing cameras or other special equipment that could lead to an entanglement. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/31/2003 Räyskälä, Finland NOP,BIZ 32 800 N/N Description: Preliminary information, the accident will be fully investigated and information updated. After an uneventful 3-way freefly skydive the jumper was observed to release her main canopy soon after opening because of a yet unknown malfunction. The jumper fell to ground in unstable position, and impacted back to earth. The reserve handle was found still in it's pouch. She was wearing a camera helmet, so it's considered possible, that it may have had a effect on this incident. Just some light reading, please be careful, AND have fun.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Icon134 0 #17 January 17, 2006 Quoteand what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it Like others have said... there's good information in the SIM. You can also find a FAQ in the Photo and Video Forum. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I believe the BSR in the SIM is 200 jumps and a C-license. (unless it was changed in the 06 version) ScottLivin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #18 January 18, 2006 thanks for taking the time to find those reports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #19 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteand what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it Like others have said... there's good information in the SIM. You can also find a FAQ in the Photo and Video Forum. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I believe the BSR in the SIM is 200 jumps and a C-license. (unless it was changed in the 06 version) Scott Thanks for finding that.. I'll follow the rules and wait till I have my C and 200 jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #20 January 18, 2006 QuoteI'll follow the rules Quote[Wink] Sigh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattyblast 0 #21 January 18, 2006 QuoteHaven't you seen the ad in Parachutist? All you really need to do is buy the Samsung, and then wear it on that cool looking headband. What could possibly go wrong? That Samsung camera is a great little device, and it even has a picture of a skydiver on the box it comes in. But that headband is blech (as your sarcasm correctly asserts). That thing would slip off of any helmet during the walk to the airplane. I wish Samsung would have consulted with some experienced videographers before showing that headband in the ad."DOOR!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #22 January 18, 2006 And I wish Parachutist had considered the ramifications of an add like that without a disclaimer.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,471 #23 January 18, 2006 >thanks for the solution. . . It's a good solution, but it's the solution to the wrong problem. Doing video is like doing demos. I can't count the number of people who got hurt on the old 'wide open demos' we did 15 years ago. "Don't worry! It's bigger than our freaking DZ! No problem; you've got a C license!" And people would consistently pound in, break their legs, end up in trees, in the ocean etc. Why did this happen? Was it because they were jumping flags, or smoke, or the spot was bad? No. It was because their focus was different. They were performing for a crowd. They were looking around a lot more. They were trying to "look good" when they landed. They were trying to give people a show. Sure, we could give the streamers and the smoke to the most experienced demo jumpers - but that was solving the wrong problem. The problem was that someone with 112 jumps wasn't ready for the additional workload of demos, period. Years ago I had a chest-mount camera and I was doing 120-ways; figured I could get some cool video. Now, it's just a camera, right? Turn it on and forget about it, right? Heck, I don't even have to aim it since it was mounted on my chest! What could go wrong? And on the first jump on this particular bigway with that system, I collided with someone. Afterwards I tried to figure out what had gone wrong. Was it the camera changing my aerodynamics? Or the extra weight? Nope. It was that in the back of my mind I knew that if I was over just five more feet I'd get this great shot. And I did not have enough experience to deal with that AND fly well in a 100-way. Now, maybe at 65+ jumps you have better awareness than I had at 1200. Not impossible; I was a slow learner. But there is a chance that you may have the same problems I did - plus you have to aim your camera. All the good equipment advice in the world won't make up for the fact that your concentration is no longer on a safe skydive, it's on getting the shot. Only experience will give you the awareness to do that safely. And who knows? Maybe you will luck out and be OK. But I would think _very_ carefully about whether that's something you want to chance right now - because with video, you might just take someone else out too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jasonRose 0 #24 January 18, 2006 QuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #25 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. I found out the issue with the camera.. THere is a message board for this camera.. I have it on my work computer and I'll send it to you tomorrow.. The issue is in the presure change.. it does something to the little button on the cord and kills the recording.. If you test it you'll see that if you turn it on with the door open.. it should work.. anyway.. I'll send you the link.. and my instructors told me to have fun.. and Billvon has a lot of good points.. so Im going to meet them in the middle and get some more experience before I get my own to play with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
NWFlyer 2 #13 January 17, 2006 QuoteI just couldnt think of it at the time.. That's the problem. You haven't thought about it. This is not a sport to be trying new stuff without thinking through the ramifications. Do a search on "starting camera." It'll surely come up with some posts because I know I've seen this issue discussed before. I bet there's even more in the Photography and Video forum. You know where else it is? The SIM. An imperfect document to be sure, and sometimes a little hard to read, but a very good place to start. There's a whole section on camera flying recommendations."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #14 January 17, 2006 You might take a look at what the SIM recommends in terms of jump numbers before jumping a camera. If I recall it has some explanation on why too. Best of luck to you. Blues, Ron (the nicely dressed one)"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #15 January 17, 2006 Thats what I was going to suggest after realizing I didn't give the right answer. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 January 17, 2006 QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 1/20/1996 Sunstate Freefall, FL EXC,CCOL 43 4300 ?/? Description: Two jumpers were under canopy. One was jumping a banner. The other was filming. The cameraman in maneuvering contacted the banner, and a "wrap" followed. They were heard to be discussing the situation. At an alt. of aprox 600 feet the cameraman told the other jumper to "cutaway". The jumper deployed his reserve and when it reached line-stretch proceeded to cutaway. He got an open reserve at aprox 10 to 20 feet. The cameraman was still with the "mess" which reportedly equaled less than half a canopy and was spinning. The cameraman cutaway at aprox. 100-150 feet and impacted the ground shortly afterward. Lessons:Filming someone who is making an exceptional skydive makes things more complicated for the cameraman. It's important to remain altitude aware even after a canopy collision. Cutting away below 500ft or so is rarely a good idea. An AAD would not have changed the outcome. Skydiving reports that no banner was involved in this jump, and that the alititude of the cutaway is unknown QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/30/1997 Cross Keys, NJ CRW 32 2000 ?/? Description: While videoing a 2-way CRW jump, a wrap occured at about 4000' between the camera flyer and another dive participant. The deceased cutaway, but the slider stowed behind his head became caught on part of his camera helmet and thus his main failed to seperate. The reserve became entangled with the main and he hit the ground hard. He was alert and concious that evening, but died of internal injuries the next morning while in surgery. The deceased was taking part in as well as or videoing the CRW dive. He was likely jumping a Jedei, which is not a canopy designed for CRW. He indicated he had to deploy the reserve because lines were around his neck and he was starting to pass out. Lessons:While it may appear the deceased did "everything right", a slider stowed behind the head both obscures vision and can hamper a clean cutaway in the event of a canopy collision (CRW related or not.) If a camera helmet has exposed surfaces on which a line, riser, bridle or other canopy component could become snagged, it is helpful if the helmet may be cutaway. Flying a camera, particularly in CRW formations, always presents some additional hazards. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/10/1998 Las Vegas, NV CCOL 34 3600 ?/? Description: This was the first load of the day. The deceased was filming an 8 way, birthday load. According to reports, there was not much separation at break off. After breakoff at 4000ft, he did not deploy in place, as had been the plan. But instead, several witnesses said that they saw him start tracking in the same direction as the other fun jumpers. He was seen waving off and pulling directly above another fun jumper. Several witnesses from the ground, and from the air, saw his canopy open in a severe spin. It appeared that he was trying to unstow his steering handles as he corkscrewed 2 complete turns, and slammed directly into the chest and legs of another jumper. Both men had open main canopies. Neither of the canopies collapsed or tangled after the impact. (The other jumper was knocked unconscious for a brief period, he regained consciousness and landed.) He was taken to the hospital and his injuries are unknown. He was reported as saying that he saw he on opening and then collided. Another jumper on the load is said to have witnessed the entire collision. The witness followed him down. Following the collision he was seen in a hard spiral all the way to impact. His camera helmet came off on impact. It is not known whether he died in the collision or on landing. Lessons:Not enough information to make any real assessment, but camera flyers should be openning as soon as the group breaks off, thus reducing the liklihood of this scenario. Tracking with the group, particularly if unplanned, can increase the risk of the skydive. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 1/10/1999 Zephyrhills, FL MAL 53 1200 Y/N Description: The deceased left a Twin Otter at 13500’ filming a 4 Way team and practicing his video skills. The team conducted a normal 4 Way jump, he took the center of the sky for opening, but opened somewhat lower than perhaps he normally would, still easily above 2500’ or more. We extracted a great deal of information from his video camera, which was recording the whole time. His Triathlon 160 canopy opened normally other than an off-heading opening and he was seen in his own video, lifting his right arm for the toggles, but his movement was restricted by the swoop cords he was wearing. He was also wearing gloves on top of the swoop cords, since it was a very cold day and it was his first jump of this type with gloves on. He managed to reach the left toggle, probably by lifting his leg as he shifted in the harness to get comfortable, as big guys sometimes do. Once he released the left brake, the canopy began an immediate turn to the right, which accelerated rapidly over the course of the first couple turns. His video then shows him taking off his right hand glove to help reach the right toggle. The glove was seen in the video after he removed it. Then he tried to stop the turn by pulling his left riser, but only slightly, having no effect on the spiral. It is expected that he could not reach the left toggle again, due to a swoop cord under his glove on the left hand (and a wrist mounted altimeter on top of the glove). He then moves to the right hand again to remove the swoop cord, which he did, but he still did not reach the right toggle, either due to the force of the spin, other restriction on his arm. Also, the right glove, removed earlier, had inadvertently been let go and got its Velcro stuck to the toggle Velcro on the right toggle, which may have impeded his ability to get the right toggle. This may have been another ‘curve ball’ thrown at him when he was already getting critically low. Again he tries to stop the turn by pulling the left riser, with no effect. He actually made four attempts to do this, each time having little or no stopping power of the turn. There are a few seconds where not much seems to be happening on the video. We expect he is either confused, perhaps disoriented from the spins, perhaps looking for his cutaway/reserve handles, or perhaps just plain overloaded due to the size of the trees and ground below him. He pulled his cutaway handle at tree top height, almost instantly struck some power lines and then fell to the ground, dying instantly. His freefall after the cutaway was less than 1 second. His reserve handle was never pulled and the Cypres never fired since the rate of descent under the canopy was not sufficient to do so. He did not have an RSL, but that would not have made a difference at the altitude at which he cutaway. He did 11 spirals under the parachute with one brake stowed and his canopy ride was about 43 seconds long in total, most of that spinning. Lessons:1. He put new gloves over top of his swoop cords, effectively tying down his hands. Not a big problem, had he simply removed all that before releasing any brakes. Jack was new to video jumps, and perhaps just did not think of that. 2. He did not have a ‘malfunction’ in the true sense of the word, so his judgement of whether or not to cutaway may have been impaired. He may have thought this was a very simple problem, and perhaps he could fix it. 3. He also may not have thought about the velocity of his spin or the rate of descent, given that he jumped a Triathlon, considered to be relatively docile by today’s standards. 4. A Cypres is not a substitute for an RSL. Had he cutaway with at 300’ with an RSL, he would probably be alive today. His rig was bought used several years ago, and did not come with one. I do not think that he ‘deliberately’ jumped without one, just that he never got around to getting it done. 5. Give all of your problems 2 tries to fix them, and then get out of there. Earlier reaction and detection of a problem would surely have had a different outcome. 6. Any size of a parachute is capable of spinning fast enough to be out of control. His Triathlon was probably losing 200+ feet each revolution. Don’ t assume that any canopy is docile; the deceased was clearly horizontal to the ground for most of the descent QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/1/1999 Rakkestad, Norway MAL 28 550 N/Y Description: After videoing a Tandem, the camera continued to run during the accident. After opening at 3000, the canopy (a Stilleto 135) entered a hard left turn. The deceased never released the left toggle from the riser, and lost track of altitude during the spin. He hit the ground still in a hard left turn. Apparently, he had a fast opening and the slider came down the line rapidly enough to bring the left grommet on the slider over the left toggle. It is not clear when the right toggle was released, or whether the opening or jumper case it to be released. The canopy stayed in a left turn throughout the 44 second canopy flight. The jumper tried to release the left toggle during the entire ride, including from both above and below the slider, but failed to release it before he hit the ground. He did try countering the turn with the right front riser momentarily. No attempt was made to initiate emergency procedures. If you can read Norwegian, see[here] Lessons:This somewhat unique situation is clearly a standard malfunction: inability to control the canopy. When it was impossible to stop the turn after a few tries, the correct approach would likely have been to initiate normal emergency procedures. Keep in mind, even though the canopy is correctly inflated, you do not have a good canopy unless you can also control it. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 6/20/1999 Kingman, KS BIZ 20 200 ?/? Description: On what may have been the sunset load at Skydive Wichita a young jumper with about 200 jumps to his credit and a very experienced skydiver with perhaps two or three thousand jumps were practicing their head-down skills. The young jumper, a few days short of his 21st birthday and current overall, had started getting serious about freeflying in the months before the accident. The experienced jumper, although also current and holding a tandem and AFF rating, was not as experienced at freeflying. The two-way exited the C-182 at 10,000 feet and were flying face-to-face, more or less, and were exchanging handgrips, alternating right-to-right and then left-to-left. At about 6,000 feet the more experienced jumper accidentally snagged the younger jumpers "D" ring and his reserve fired while he was head-down. The younger jumper was also wearing a Sony digital camera on a Bonehead. Anyway, although in extreme pain, the younger jumper landed his reserve canopy and was taken to the local hospital. He and his father and sister (who also are avid skydivers) then went to a major hospital in Wichita. As it turned out, shortening the story considerably, the young jumper had not only fractured some vertebrae in the cervical spine but also ruptured the cerebral artery in the brain stem area. He was declared dead on June 22, 1999 Lessons:This could be an argument for a "pillow" reserve handle, but there are complications with this approach as well, namely a hard pull. A CYPRES mitigates this risk somewhat -- how likely is it that you'll have a malfunction, be unable to pull your reserve, and your CYPRES fails to fire. Again, this is a somewhat heretical approach, but a complicated risk tradeoff is involved here. Smaller reserve D-rings are also an option. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 4/1/2000 Lapalisse, France MAL ?/? Description: After filming an RW jump, this jumper's main pilot chute became entangled in his camera gear. He cutaway the main, but it remained tangled with the helmet. Reserve deployment was initiated, but it entangled with the main. Lessons:It's important to set up camera helmets to minimize the chance of entanglements. It can be helpful to have a quick-release so that any camera-related entanglement can be cleared. Otherwise, a good stable body position and strong throw are especially wise when jumping a camera. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 8/20/2000 Ptuj, Slovenia MAL 30 308 ?/? Description: This skydiver was making a camera jump. He had some sort of malfunction and tried to cutaway, but did not succeed. He deployed his reserve which tangled with the main. He landed with the parachutes in this configuration. Lessons:This incident, coupled with the one in Italy on 8/12 is a good reminder to practice-practice-practice those emergency procedures. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 3/24/2001 Louisburg, NC MAL 34 323 ?/? Description: A four way and a videographer exited a twin otter from 13000'. The videographer filmed the 4-way, which went normally until breakoff. The videographer was supposed to pull from the center at 4000. Members of the 4-way observed him at 2500' with a bag locked main. On the ground, the main suspension lines were found entangled with the eyepiece on the helmet. The reserve pilot chute was entangled with the main, and (apparently?) both stows on the reserve were out. The reserve ripcord had been pulled, and was not found, indicating perhaps a high deployment of the reserve. The cutaway release was found near the hand of the deceased. He had made 55 jumps in the last month, most camera jumps, and was quite current. Lessons:A horseshow malfunction is the most difficult one to handle. Ideally, this jumper would have managed to release his helmet before cutting away or deploying the reserve. However, many helmets are quite difficult to release quickly, and when in the high-stress situation of a malfunction. It is unfortunate that the reserve did not escape the freebag, as the report seems into indicate the reserve lines were not involved in the entanglement. USPA Description: This jumper was videoing a 4-way formation skydive. The plan was for him to deploy at 4,000 feet. Members of the 4-way team observed him at 2,500 feet with a bag-lock malfunction. The deceased was found with main suspension lines wrapped around the eye piece of his camera helmet. The reserve had been delpoyed, and the reserve pilot chute was entangled with the main. The reserve ripcord could not be located, but the cutaway handle was near his hand. USPA Conclusions:The reason for the camera helmet-main canopy entanglement is not known. The evidence indicates that the main was deployed first. The jumper apparently deployed the reserve before the main was released. The main evidently was cut away very late. The correct actions would have been to attempt to clear the camera-canopy entanglement first, altitude permitting, then attempt to cut away the malfunctioned main before deploying the reserve. However, entanglements of this nature present a fast-paced, challenging situation. A jumper must keep altitude in mind to complete the recommended emergency procedures if the initial problem can't be rectified. Camera jumps involve many serious challenges that need to be considered by any jumper contemplating jumping with cameras or any special equipment. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 3/31/2001 Lodi, CA MAL 49 3000 Y/N Description: After videoing a two-way, this jumper experienced a main malfunction (a spinning something-or-other). When she cutaway, her reserve bridle caught on her front-mounted still camera. She had pulled all the handles, and had managed to reserve the helmet before impact. The ring sight tangled with some of the lines, and the locking stows of the freebag did not release. Lessons:Adding anything which can catch lines or fabrics can make this type of problem possible. This incident also shows that cutting away the helmet doesn't always solve the problem. If you wear a helmet with a camera, you are accepting the possibility that this can happen to you -- unless your camera mount is snag-free. USPA Description: This experienced videographer was filming a tandem skydive. The tandem instructor deployed the tandem parachute and then observed the videographer falling away unstable. The videographer then deployed her main canopy while still unstable, which resulted in a main canopy malfunction. The main was released, and the reserve was deployed as she continued to fall unstable. The reserve canopy never came out of the freebag, and she continued to tumble all the way to impact. Post-accident inspection reveleaed that the reserve bridle had entangled with her camera helmet and subsequently choked off the reserve lines, preventing the reserve from clearing the freebag. USPA Conclusions:This jumper had experienced previous stability problems, in particular, instability following a cutaway while wearing a camera. Stability becomes more important to proper parachute delpoyment when the jumper is wearing cameras or other special equipment that could lead to an entanglement. QuoteDate Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 5/31/2003 Räyskälä, Finland NOP,BIZ 32 800 N/N Description: Preliminary information, the accident will be fully investigated and information updated. After an uneventful 3-way freefly skydive the jumper was observed to release her main canopy soon after opening because of a yet unknown malfunction. The jumper fell to ground in unstable position, and impacted back to earth. The reserve handle was found still in it's pouch. She was wearing a camera helmet, so it's considered possible, that it may have had a effect on this incident. Just some light reading, please be careful, AND have fun.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #17 January 17, 2006 Quoteand what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it Like others have said... there's good information in the SIM. You can also find a FAQ in the Photo and Video Forum. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I believe the BSR in the SIM is 200 jumps and a C-license. (unless it was changed in the 06 version) ScottLivin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #18 January 18, 2006 thanks for taking the time to find those reports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #19 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteand what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it Like others have said... there's good information in the SIM. You can also find a FAQ in the Photo and Video Forum. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I believe the BSR in the SIM is 200 jumps and a C-license. (unless it was changed in the 06 version) Scott Thanks for finding that.. I'll follow the rules and wait till I have my C and 200 jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #20 January 18, 2006 QuoteI'll follow the rules Quote[Wink] Sigh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattyblast 0 #21 January 18, 2006 QuoteHaven't you seen the ad in Parachutist? All you really need to do is buy the Samsung, and then wear it on that cool looking headband. What could possibly go wrong? That Samsung camera is a great little device, and it even has a picture of a skydiver on the box it comes in. But that headband is blech (as your sarcasm correctly asserts). That thing would slip off of any helmet during the walk to the airplane. I wish Samsung would have consulted with some experienced videographers before showing that headband in the ad."DOOR!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #22 January 18, 2006 And I wish Parachutist had considered the ramifications of an add like that without a disclaimer.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,471 #23 January 18, 2006 >thanks for the solution. . . It's a good solution, but it's the solution to the wrong problem. Doing video is like doing demos. I can't count the number of people who got hurt on the old 'wide open demos' we did 15 years ago. "Don't worry! It's bigger than our freaking DZ! No problem; you've got a C license!" And people would consistently pound in, break their legs, end up in trees, in the ocean etc. Why did this happen? Was it because they were jumping flags, or smoke, or the spot was bad? No. It was because their focus was different. They were performing for a crowd. They were looking around a lot more. They were trying to "look good" when they landed. They were trying to give people a show. Sure, we could give the streamers and the smoke to the most experienced demo jumpers - but that was solving the wrong problem. The problem was that someone with 112 jumps wasn't ready for the additional workload of demos, period. Years ago I had a chest-mount camera and I was doing 120-ways; figured I could get some cool video. Now, it's just a camera, right? Turn it on and forget about it, right? Heck, I don't even have to aim it since it was mounted on my chest! What could go wrong? And on the first jump on this particular bigway with that system, I collided with someone. Afterwards I tried to figure out what had gone wrong. Was it the camera changing my aerodynamics? Or the extra weight? Nope. It was that in the back of my mind I knew that if I was over just five more feet I'd get this great shot. And I did not have enough experience to deal with that AND fly well in a 100-way. Now, maybe at 65+ jumps you have better awareness than I had at 1200. Not impossible; I was a slow learner. But there is a chance that you may have the same problems I did - plus you have to aim your camera. All the good equipment advice in the world won't make up for the fact that your concentration is no longer on a safe skydive, it's on getting the shot. Only experience will give you the awareness to do that safely. And who knows? Maybe you will luck out and be OK. But I would think _very_ carefully about whether that's something you want to chance right now - because with video, you might just take someone else out too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jasonRose 0 #24 January 18, 2006 QuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #25 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. I found out the issue with the camera.. THere is a message board for this camera.. I have it on my work computer and I'll send it to you tomorrow.. The issue is in the presure change.. it does something to the little button on the cord and kills the recording.. If you test it you'll see that if you turn it on with the door open.. it should work.. anyway.. I'll send you the link.. and my instructors told me to have fun.. and Billvon has a lot of good points.. so Im going to meet them in the middle and get some more experience before I get my own to play with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Jackpunx 0 #19 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteand what is the suggested jump number to start thinkinig about it Like others have said... there's good information in the SIM. You can also find a FAQ in the Photo and Video Forum. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I believe the BSR in the SIM is 200 jumps and a C-license. (unless it was changed in the 06 version) Scott Thanks for finding that.. I'll follow the rules and wait till I have my C and 200 jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #20 January 18, 2006 QuoteI'll follow the rules Quote[Wink] Sigh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattyblast 0 #21 January 18, 2006 QuoteHaven't you seen the ad in Parachutist? All you really need to do is buy the Samsung, and then wear it on that cool looking headband. What could possibly go wrong? That Samsung camera is a great little device, and it even has a picture of a skydiver on the box it comes in. But that headband is blech (as your sarcasm correctly asserts). That thing would slip off of any helmet during the walk to the airplane. I wish Samsung would have consulted with some experienced videographers before showing that headband in the ad."DOOR!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #22 January 18, 2006 And I wish Parachutist had considered the ramifications of an add like that without a disclaimer.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #23 January 18, 2006 >thanks for the solution. . . It's a good solution, but it's the solution to the wrong problem. Doing video is like doing demos. I can't count the number of people who got hurt on the old 'wide open demos' we did 15 years ago. "Don't worry! It's bigger than our freaking DZ! No problem; you've got a C license!" And people would consistently pound in, break their legs, end up in trees, in the ocean etc. Why did this happen? Was it because they were jumping flags, or smoke, or the spot was bad? No. It was because their focus was different. They were performing for a crowd. They were looking around a lot more. They were trying to "look good" when they landed. They were trying to give people a show. Sure, we could give the streamers and the smoke to the most experienced demo jumpers - but that was solving the wrong problem. The problem was that someone with 112 jumps wasn't ready for the additional workload of demos, period. Years ago I had a chest-mount camera and I was doing 120-ways; figured I could get some cool video. Now, it's just a camera, right? Turn it on and forget about it, right? Heck, I don't even have to aim it since it was mounted on my chest! What could go wrong? And on the first jump on this particular bigway with that system, I collided with someone. Afterwards I tried to figure out what had gone wrong. Was it the camera changing my aerodynamics? Or the extra weight? Nope. It was that in the back of my mind I knew that if I was over just five more feet I'd get this great shot. And I did not have enough experience to deal with that AND fly well in a 100-way. Now, maybe at 65+ jumps you have better awareness than I had at 1200. Not impossible; I was a slow learner. But there is a chance that you may have the same problems I did - plus you have to aim your camera. All the good equipment advice in the world won't make up for the fact that your concentration is no longer on a safe skydive, it's on getting the shot. Only experience will give you the awareness to do that safely. And who knows? Maybe you will luck out and be OK. But I would think _very_ carefully about whether that's something you want to chance right now - because with video, you might just take someone else out too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #24 January 18, 2006 QuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #25 January 18, 2006 QuoteQuoteHi all, This weekend another low timer and I were doing 2 and 3 way's. He had a new Samsung video camera. (very small) with a remote lens. So we duck taped it to my helmet and went for it.. I didn’t concentrate to much on anything other than looking at him and jumping safe..(normal jump) I had a blast! Unfortunatly the camera shut off on us (I think it was a standby option we didn’t figure out).. I think it would have come out great IF it had worked..LOL.. So my question is.. How do I get into that? I don’t want to make a career out of it .. but I really enjoyed it. Is there a cheap way to get started? are there any things to be aware of? thanks To answer your question: I duck taped the same remote lens to my helmet and tried about 6 differn't jumps trying to get vid. Everytime I got into the door the remote camera turned off, I think I have the problem reduced down to the rubber mount flexing and hitting the on off button or opening the battery hatch. In either case I think the rubber mount they send with the cam is a peice of crap. By the way safety first!!! Talk to your instructors before jumping cameras they know what your capable of. I probable shouldn't be jumping a cam if you go off of jump numbers. Please talk to the old timers they will keep you safe. I found out the issue with the camera.. THere is a message board for this camera.. I have it on my work computer and I'll send it to you tomorrow.. The issue is in the presure change.. it does something to the little button on the cord and kills the recording.. If you test it you'll see that if you turn it on with the door open.. it should work.. anyway.. I'll send you the link.. and my instructors told me to have fun.. and Billvon has a lot of good points.. so Im going to meet them in the middle and get some more experience before I get my own to play with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
