LouDiamond 1 #26 December 31, 2004 Quote-Until now the ideal would be, when you jump a big airplane, to do 2 jumpruns. One run for the fast freefallers and one jumprun for the slow freefallers. First run the biggest group so the smallest group jump in second run before tandems, AFF and high pullers and wing suit flyers. WOW, the reply to that could take up pages but the long story short is that DZs aren't going to go for 2 jumpruns when they can do 1 safely. Without getting into the economic weeds of it, it simply isn't cost effective for the DZ. It would be like trying to sell ice cubes to eskimos. Quote-A dropzone with more than one landingzone with a left patern. Several of the Big DZs have more than one landing area and in the case of SD Az. it has a set landing direction regardless of the wind in the main landing area. The alternate landing area pattern is into the wind. Both use the universally accepted low man sets the pattern(which has it's pros and cons to it, do a search on it). Look at SD Az, WFFC or other large DZs/boogies where you have multiple aircraft on parallel jump runs dropping simultaneously and you'll quickly see that what you propose is not feasible in the slightest way. Not saying it doesn't happen but for the amount of people in the sky at one given time, boogies like these have relatively low incidents in the landing area compared to what can often been observed at ones local DZ on any given weekend. I think once you are able to see bigger operations and travel a bit you will quickly see how using canopy size as a guide to exit order is not feasible as a remedy for landing area problems. What I have often found is that those arguing about landing area congestion and other canopies are those like myself who are flying very small canopies and are worried about getting their swoop on and see everyone else as a speed bump in their being able to set up. News Flash, all the guys on the pro swoop tour and many more who aren't, are still able to get their swoop on with normal canopy traffic around them. Again, it comes down to canopy control skills. If the thought of others being in the sky with you when your trying to swoop is a detractor then hop and pops is the answer."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bartje 0 #27 December 31, 2004 the goal is not doing or not doing your swoop, the goal is spread traffic. As I understand your are happy with the curent situation, I do think we have to rethink a lot on safety matters and spreading traffic is one for me. Spreading traffic is a way to make thing safer and my question is how to do it. I do travel a lot, been to boogies an jumped lots of airplanes. (we are called the FreeFlyGypsies you know). It is just the lac of discipline what worries me. At boogies or big dropzones there is more discipline than on smaller dz's but with the current evolution there is a problem. A FreeFly Gypsy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #28 December 31, 2004 QuoteI understand your are happy with the curent situation I don't know how you drew that conclusion but it is not true. Landing area issues are and will continue to be a problem as long as we have skydivers but exit order based on canopy size is not going to fix the problem in the landing area EVER. QuoteSpreading traffic is a way to make thing safer and my question is how to do it. The first step to making it safer at any drop zone is education on things like canopy control, landing patterns and proper in air ettiquette under canopy and establishing rules. This needs to be enforced by the DZO/S&TAs whenever someone violates those rules or causes an unsafe situation. There is no cookie cutter solution to fixing this problem as there are many variables involved. QuoteIt is just the lac of discipline that pretty much sums it up for a lot of the problems we have in skydiving. Until everyone in skydiving is on the same sheet of music, we are going to continue to see this type of problem."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bartje 0 #29 December 31, 2004 Quote don't know how you drew that conclusion but it is not true my apologies, I took the wrong conclusion. QuoteThe first step to making it safer at any drop zone is education on things like canopy control, landing patterns and proper in air ettiquette under canopy and establishing rules. What do we do during the time? I'm not 100% happy with the current general situation. During my travels I did see one solution in France. The drops vary with the windspeed. With much wind the slow freefallers go out first, with less or no wind the slow freefallers go last. This does help the separation but is not that easy as guideline. I have to say they operate two pilatus porters and not one big airplane. As you say at skydive AZ they have two seperated dropaxes, is does help the traffic spreading. A FreeFly Gypsy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
