High WLs, Low Experience.. Where Are the S&TAs?

[billvon 2,400]

> Maybe a BSR is the answer.

Maybe. But canopy fatalities are down this year. If the trend continues, then the steps we've taken so far might be having an effect - and it might be worthwhile to see if the trend continues.

[kallend 1,623]

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Yup, MORE being the keyword in that statement. Obviously the guidelines that are already in place aren't doing their job.

"Obviously"? You have proof of that claim?

The only obvious things are that you haven't bothered to look at any actual data and admit that you haven't read the SIM.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[superwoman8433 0]

It is funny how everyone is discussing a topic that doesn't have an answer to it. Yes, the S&TA is there but as someone posted eariler, they don't always get the last word.

I, myself, am in that range that a few of you are saying cause the most canopy collisions and I would like to see data on that. I have lost several people since I have been in the sport and almost all of them that went in under canopy had 1000+ jumps.

I have been in the sport December of 2004. I consider myself a newbie by the sport, but think I am well ahead of the average skydiver because I live with someone who has been in the sport 19 years and has over 12,000+ jumps and still actively swoops, skydives, and does AFF. I have learned a lot from him.

IMO, someone shouldn't downsize until the canopy that they are on is holding them back. For example, I was on a 170 until about jump 200. I weigh 150 out the door. Yes, that is a student wing loading, but you know what?? I could land the canopy where I wanted. As my jump numbers went up, so did my experience.

You can't judge a person on if they are standing their landings up (they are ready to downsize..sorry but NO) I stood up probably 50% of my landings on my 170, where I have stood up 99% of my landings on my 150. My canopy was holding me back and not allowing me to access my flight skills because of the size. I learned to fly on a boat and perfected my skills and then downsized.

One thing is certain.....Experience is everything. If I was on a smaller canopy, I damn sure should know how to fly it and what to do in every possible situation that could go wrong because it happens A LOT FASTER under a small canopy

[kallend 1,623]

Well, you are right. Fatalities under perfectly good canopies are too high, and they affect skydivers at all experience levels. It is not at all clear to me how a WL restriction on jumpers with <500 jumps will prevent someone with 5,000 jumps from pulling a 270 in the pattern and hitting someone else.

My personal opinion is that the WL guidelines are all well and good, but to some extent are distracting us from a problem that is greater in scope, which is that standard canopy training, for the most part, sucks and has sucked for years. Having 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 jumps that simply reinforced bad habits will be less valuable than having 100 jumps that included more advanced canopy skills training than than the industry standard.

The NTSB noted some years ago the most significant predictive parameter for airplane accidents was the pilot's TIME IN TYPE, not total time. Maybe it's the same for canopy flying.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.