Bandit jumping?

[billvon 2,404]

> You are not required to have a NOTAM.

From the FAR's:

a) No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from that aircraft—

(1) Over or within a restricted area or prohibited area unless the controlling agency of the area concerned has authorized that parachute operation;

(2) Within or into a Class A, B, C, D airspace area without, or in violation of the requirements of, an air traffic control authorization issued under this section;

(3) Except as provided in paragraph (c) and (d) of this section, within or into Class E or G airspace area unless the air traffic control facility having jurisdiction over the airspace at the first intended exit altitude is notified of the parachute operation no earlier than 24 hours before or no later than 1 hour before the parachute operation begins.

(3 refers to the information required to issue the NOTAM.)

[velvetjo 0]

Be considerate of the pilot! Not filing a NOTAM, not being in communication with ATC, and dropping a jumper without permission from a landowner are all good ways to get the FAA irritated with the pilot. It's his ticket, not yours, so respect the time & effort it took to get it before you risk it for him or her.

Another aspect to consider is aircraft insurance. Not many GA policies cover jump operations, so if something happens during the flight, your pilot just might end up with an uninsured pile of very expensive aluminum. Are you prepared to pony up for any damage to the hull, let alone liability?

If you're comfortable landing off a DZ, setting a jump run direction & spot for a pilot, briefing a pilot on how to fly a jump run, etc., then cool. If the pilot is aware of the regulations & risks and comfortable with them, then cool. If not, you have a decision to make.

BTW, ever used a wind drift indicator? Depending on your spotting abilities, it might be handy to bring one along.

If you do decide to do a real bandit jump, listen to the other posters and STFU about it. Have fun, but think this through before you make a decision.

Lance

[itllclear 1]

Quote

of all the threads I've seen asking about these kinds of jumps, none of them were posted by an experienced jumper.

OK, I'll chime in. Besides the jump stats on my profile, I'm an ATP w/8500 hrs., including a fair amount of experience flying jumpers both at DZ's with all the paperwork for the planes, and letting them out of 172's with the door on.

As Bill Von quoted, there are specific regs regarding jumping (FAR Part 105). Whether you and the pilot want to follow them is something I can't control. Just be aware of the consequences if something goes wrong. If all the paperwork is in order, the FAA will probably just kick some dirt into the crater and walk away. If the paperwork is not in order, you're asking for trouble for everyone remotely involved. That could include legitimate jump operations that get caught in a dragnet of increased scrutiny.

For my part, whenever I had jumpers wanting to go to Frans Ranch (do a search in History and Trivia) I got the landowner's permission ("Honey, if you're coming here to business, you can get here any way you want"). I also filed a NOTAM and contacted ATC before I let the jumpers out. I had the FSDO issue the Supplimental Operating Limitations for Flight with Door Removed for my airplane.

None of these steps were really difficult or time consuming. Save busting the regulations for times when there is no practical alternative.

BSBD

Harry

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[LongWayToFall 0]

So you only received verbal permission from the property owner?
It seems like these are the things I would need to do to pull this off:
1. Because getting out of the plane with the door on would pose a significant hazard, as well as making it easier to damage the plane (Something I don't want and the pilot definitely doesn't want) I would want to secure a STC for operating with the door removed. I thought I read earlier that it only costs $50, is this true? I will want to find a local pilot that isn't going anywhere, so I could use his plane again at a later date.
2. Get permission from the land owner where I plan on landing. Do we know if this has to be in a written form that is specific or not? ie Can farmer bob write on binder paper "Its ok for da parashoots to come down in da field" Or would it need to contain specifics regarding the exact jump? If verbal is permitted I would much rather use that way of securing permission......
3. Secure NOTAM, I still need to research some of the details with this.
4. Announce to the ATCs that are controlling any airspace I plan on falling or parachuting through 1-24 hours ahead of time, and also several minutes before the jump is made.

The only thing that seems "loose" is the property deal, if I burn in on someone's property that gave me written permission, they are liable correct? I would hope not but you know how laws are. Also, can you be fined for having an out landing? I don't see why you couldn't get permission to land in an area that has a low probability of being successful (a small field) that borders an area that you will certainly be able to make (a large field). DZs do this all the time with designated "outs" that I am sure they do not have expressed permission to use

[Liemberg 0]

Quote

The interesting thing is, of all the threads I've seen asking about these kinds of jumps, none of them were posted by an experienced jumper.

Or an experienced poster, if I may add...

What never ceases to amaze me that a lot of responders are absolutely positively sure that any infringement of the rules about who pays what and gets 'non commercially' compensated for what is a capital crime and may put an end to our beloved sport.

That, and that asking about it overhere implies that one is in way over their head - opening the door of a C172 in flight, phew - What Are You Thinking Stupid Boy? *)

Cloud punching on the other hand seems to be a whole different matter...

*) Remembering vividly that @ my place but not under my supervision one time one very experienced jumper in the Netherlands who was on all sorts of technical boards and instructor examiner and all during a unnotified 'jump in' jumped out of a normal C172 that didn't have the door removed and that had his girlfriend(!) without a parachute in the backseat. Of course he saw absolutely no problem with that...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[LongWayToFall 0]

Maybe the experienced jumper already knows enough about the topic to make it happen without have to ask, or doesn't care and does it without following the regulations? Or maybe they are just comfortable with jumping at the dz and have no ambitions of jumping in other areas? I can tell you that someday I WILL jump at this location, its just a matter of how much stuff I will have to go through to do it. Its possible that someone without as much drive as myself is easily deterred by fees/complications. Don't knock the inexperienced dreamers!