AFF 7 and I want to have fun!!!

[Piece 0]

Quote

Well, I guess I want to weigh in...

I am a student myself, just finished my D-2 today, and plan 3 jumps Sat, 3 Sun. Anyway, new to the sport, but not new to life. It seems to me it was a stupid ass idea, and the saying of 'no such thing as a stupid question' obviously wasn't counting on yours. Anything that you learn if life, you should listen to those teaching you, and while there is nothing wrong with some ideas, others just show what a moron a person is. Asking a question like yours, is kinda like saying, well no one told me on the gun range that I couldn't try firing sideways down the line instead of downrange... so I though I'd try it just for kicks". With an attitude like yours, I wouldn't even want to be near the same drop zone with you, and I would ressomend you make sure your life insurance is paid up, because I am sure that you may have other stupis-ass ideas, one of wich may eventually get you killed, in not someone else.

Anyway that's my two cents.

This type of reply is precisely the reason why so many skydivers strongly dislike dz.com. Heaven forbid we just answer someone's question, right? It is not enough to just tell him to follow the dive plan and explain what a burble is. We have to bash him on the head over and over again, tell him he's about to die, ostracize him based on a single post in an anonymous forum, turn him into a public joke and call him a moron. That'll learn him to ask questions...

By the way, notice how all of this venom is coming from low-timers? Would you people speak to him this way if you were in front of his instructor at his DZ? Would you even speak to him at all given your experience level? If you wouldn't do it in real life, don't do it on the forums either. I think a total newbie yelling at students is much more dangerous than an over-excited student asking a silly question. You definitely convinced me just now that when I finally become an instructor I will be telling the students I jump with not to read the dz.com forums.

Oh and, by the way, it is not uncommon for experienced skydivers to mess around in the sky if things are going well. With more experience you will gain perspective, something these forums are sorely lacking.

http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/02/28/funny-pictures-i-come-with-sarcasm/
Proudly uncool since 1982.

[strop45 0]

Agreed. The only silly question is one that doesn't get asked, although for a student, its better to ask your instructor than seek advice from the internet.

I think that the most amusing thing here is the OP's assumption that he will be somehow be able to out-fly his instructor.

On my final AFF jump, I remember feeling like I was tracking like a real pro only to finish the track and find my instructor back in my face giving me a thumbs-up.

Blue Ones
Wayne

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein

[Baksteen 84]

Very well said.

I may be a low timer, but I haven't forgotten yet that I too have had to start at the very beginning - and that wasn't even very long ago.

You might hang with the experienced folk now, but talking to the cool dudes doesn't make you one. Keep this in mind when repying to someone with (even) less jumps than you have: we've all been there, and we all used to be ignorant.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Stuntbabex 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iweZ-o43wFU

[denete 2]

Quote

By the way, notice how all of this venom is coming from low-timers? Would you people speak to him this way if you were in front of his instructor at his DZ?

Yes, but I didn't notice any "venom" in my posts. Maybe the venom is really subtle.

Yes, I would say something in front of his instructor...if I cared about the safety of the individuals involved or the potential impact to the DZ in the event of the worst-case scenario becoming reality. Remember, this kid was going to do this as a surprise for his instructor.

- David (sub-sub-sub-LOW-timer-embryo-wannabe)...because jump numbers change the importance of knowledge

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[Stuntbabex 0]

Quote

...because jump numbers change the importance of knowledge

No. Jump numbers dont. The jump numbers you put down in your dz.com profile does though. It defines your status in the jump community. It overrides everything else about you.

[humanflite 0]

Quote

Quote

...because jump numbers change the importance of knowledge

No. Jump numbers dont. The jump numbers you put down in your dz.com profile does though. It defines your status in the jump community. It overrides everything else about you.

Even though a lot of people undoubtedly BS their numbers up a bit

[Piece 0]

There was no venom in your posts. I am sorry I did not make that more clear, I did not intend to criticize you. I did not mean all low-timers, only the ones over-reacting. I definitely did not mean, and was careful not to say, that low-timers should shut up in general. I myself am a low-timer.

Saying something in a respectful manner in front of an instructor is one thing. Ridiculing and saying things like "I will never jump with you because you suggested not following the dive flow on an AFF jump" or "you are a moron" is another thing entirely, especially when the student is just being a student. If I was an instructor and someone did that to my student they would get a harsh talking-to. That was my point. I also firmly believe that people without instructional ratings and without a lot of jumps should be very careful when talking to students without instructors present. I prefer to not talk to students about their skydiving at all if I can help it. This is a matter of safety as well as good instructional practice.

There is a time and a place in skydiving for the harsh talk. When needed it can save lives. Not every small thing deserves such talk.

I do want to point out one thing:

Quote

Remember, this kid was going to do this as a surprise for his instructor.

It is essentially impossible that he would have succeeded to the point of actually burbling his instructor, we are talking about an AFF-I here. Not that that means he should have tried. Billvon addressed this in his earlier post.

http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/02/28/funny-pictures-i-come-with-sarcasm/
Proudly uncool since 1982.

[Piece 0]

It is very naive to think that experience does not matter when it comes to disseminating knowledge. Many things you think you know now may change in a few years and a few hundred jumps. Most importantly, experience will bring perspective on the knowledge that you do have. This is the difference between theoretical and practical knowledge. In skydiving, the latter is much more valuable than the former. Because of this, I believe that jump numbers are a very meaningful measure of experience because they indicate that you have been in many different skydiving situations and have had a chance to see how the theories work in practice. For example, in practice one person briefly tracking under another does not usually cause a nuclear explosion over the dropzone.

Of course, even people with thousands of jumps can be (and often are...) wrong. They often disagree. That's what our heads are for.

http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/02/28/funny-pictures-i-come-with-sarcasm/
Proudly uncool since 1982.

[GaryRay 0]

Quote

Quote

Dude post it!!! I was drunk, just poking a lil fun at dive flow.

Nice try.

ROFL, never heard more truer words, oh and "Harden the fuck up!"

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[Stuntbabex 0]

Just because I have less jump numbers doesn't mean that there are others out there with more jump numbers than me flying like shit, hurting themselves, packing themselves mals, and endangering other jumpers. Ive seen some of this stuff first hand.

Sure for most people jump numbers do make a difference. But theyre not everything, dude.

[Baksteen 84]

Quote

jump numbers do make a difference. But theyre not everything.

This is true.
Which is why everyone tells people to talk to their instructors rather than to talk to the experienced jumpers at their DZ.

But Piece, as you're probably well aware there is a huge difference between talking to a low-timer about their skydiving and giving advice
When I saw a first jump student land off, downwind without flaring*, I went over to him to see if he's OK (the instructor needed to bat down two more students) and then ask them how it was, saying nothing more than 'OK' or 'uh-huh' every now and again with the occasional 'cool' mixed in.

*Later, when the next load was landing he asked when one of his buddies was on final if that buddy shouldn't start turning now.
Turned out this guy had remembered something about having to turn at 250 feet (or even a designated spot), except he was already flying into the wind at 750..

Oh, and by the way, don't bash his intructors for "teaching a poor fjc"... all the other students landed OK.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Piece 0]

Quote

When I saw a first jump student land off, downwind without flaring*, I went over to him to see if he's OK (the instructor needed to bat down two more students) and then ask them how it was, saying nothing more than 'OK' or 'uh-huh' every now and again with the occasional 'cool' mixed in.

*Later, when the next load was landing he asked when one of his buddies was on final if that buddy shouldn't start turning now.
Turned out this guy had remembered something about having to turn at 250 feet (or even a designated spot), except he was already flying into the wind at 750..

That's what I would have done. Of course, I reserve the right to be wrong

http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/02/28/funny-pictures-i-come-with-sarcasm/
Proudly uncool since 1982.

[lisadelille 0]

Justin did end up deceased, tragically, on 1/14/2008. It was unrelated to skydiving, however, which he loved.

[Scrumpot 1]

Truly saddened to hear of this.
As someone who logged into here, no doubt to get in touch with "evidence of his being" / past - I hope you are finding peace.

As we say in skydiving, and I will bestow here, as no matter how "novice" still at the time Justin clearly was at time of his passing - he still was a skydiver (and therefore "one of us") none-the-less:

BSBD.

Best wishes to you as well, that you find peace and solace now, in your reflection of your loved-one's life. Sincere condolences on your loss.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone