Learning to swoop

[Blumpkin 0]

What is a good canopy to learn how to swoop on?

Also can someone tell me if the areodyne mamba has a short or long recovery arc?

[monkycndo 0]

Not knowing your current canopy experience will give a starting point.

If you are intending to go the PD route of canopies, start on a Sabre2 of appropriate size. It has a neutral recovery arc(not steep, not flat) and if you work it, the sucker will swoop pretty nice. Then the transition is to Katana and then Velocity.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[Blumpkin 0]

I have 720+ jumps and 400ish of them are on a mamba 140.
Im 225 exit weight. very comfortable on this canopy and stand up all of my landings, even downwinders. Im not really doing and high performance landings yet but I am interested in them. I love the mamba and I know it is an aggressive canopy and given the right pilot could be swooped like a hott damn.

Most people I talk to have suggested the PD route. I am interested in a sabre2 135 but I am also really interested in learning on the mamba. I have been told the sabre2 has a long recovery arc. I really don't have anything to compare recovery arcs to because I was flying a sabre1 190 before. Do you know what kind of recovery arc the mamba has? I feel like it has a fairly long one based on me flying it.

[Tommock 0]

I've got 500 jumps on a Mamba 90. Very fine canopy in my humble opinion. Recovery arc is definitively long. Not as long as a crossbraced canopy but quite enough to be swooped.

If you go to a Sabre II you will be quite disappointed. It flies flatter and is not as elliptical. They are in different leagues.

You could go to a Katana if you want to go the PD route. It flies steeper but my personal preference is the Mamba for swooping.

After the mamba I went velocity and it was a very natural progression.

[Blumpkin 0]

Excellent info. I knew the sabre2 was not as aggressive but have been told that it might be a good canopy to learn to swoop on. I am really happy with my mamba and would like to stay with something of similar aggressiveness. I have heard that the katana is very steeply trimmed but that is really all i know about it.
I have also heard that areodyne canopies typical have mushy bottom end flare. As I said before, the canopy I flew before the mamba was a sabre1 190 so really I have nothing to compare it to. I feel like the mamba has a pretty decent bottom.

My eventual goal is to be flying something cross braced in the 104 to 114 range. I am in no hurry to get there but that is the goal. I like how aggressive the mamba is right now. Originally I was hearing that the mamba had crap openings. I was having pretty unpredictable openings for quite awhile but now that I have sorted out having better body position on opening my openings have improved significantly, and are for the most part on heading.

[Tommock 0]

With that mamba you are in pretty good position to learn swooping, it's got potential and you have flown it for some time so go for it. Just one piece of advice, get coaching. It will save time and money in both the short and long term and you will be safer.

The mamba at your wingloading does have a good bottom flare but when you start increasing the wingload you'll notice that it will get progressively worse. At 1.9 it was still pretty ok but when I put on led for competition training it got worse as you passed 2.0 and really bad up at 2.3. If I recall correctly Aerodyne recommends loading it at 2.0 or less which I agree with. At 2.0 you really should think about going crossbrace.

[Blumpkin 0]

Thanks for the tips man. I am going to get some serious coaching for sure. I plan on taking the flight-1 courses and probably going to get some personal coaching from some pros before I start doing anything out of my experience level.

Good to know about the flare getting worse as the wing loading gets higher. I still might go for a mamba 132 after I get the 140 dialled in and then we shall see whats next after that. Thanks again for the info.

If you have any other recommendations on awesome canopies to try after I am ready to downsize and my wing loading starts to increase I would love to hear about them.

[BeauRiebe 0]

Just came here to say that this thread is awesome. It's great to see a swooping thread with legitimate questions, helpful information, and an understanding that they still need proper coaching and training, rather than the almost stereotypical downsizing-swoooping-iwannagofast-femur comments. Good luck dude!

[mattjw916 2]

Katana or Samurai up to about 1.9 but anything higher I'd just go cross-braced. If you already have a Mamba and it works for you, just stick with it.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Tommock 0]

I'll second the opinion on sticking with a canopy if it works. Changing means going back to learning the canopy for a number of jumps before being comfortable on it again. Smaller downsizes on the same canopy are not as big a deal.

When I got coaching from Alter ego a couple of months ago one thing Curt really insisted on it was to downsize one size at a time but I think this was mostly when you were on a sub 100 crossbrace.

One thing you should be aware of is that the Mamba has relatively short lines. As far as I know this does primarily two things: increase sensitivity to harness input (yay) and shorten the recovery arc (boo).

As you've said earlier it takes a while to get the openings right on a Mamba. I had the same experience. I'd guess this has something to do with the harness sensitivity. I don't have that many jumps on a Katana to know if it's the same but I don't think so. Katana just seems to open like crap whenever I jump it. (the opinion in the previous sentence is not intended as an insult to katana lovers and is merely the personal experience of the author )

Once you are on the level to look into crossbrace you'll probably know more what you want from a canopy. I understand the Velocity is very popular in the states (and Canada I presume?) but I would recommend checking out the JVX before deciding.

Also try getting coaching from different people, their take on things may be different and you are sure to learn a couple of new tricks.

[Blumpkin 0]

Great stuff dude. I think I am going to just stick with the mamba. Im putting together a second rig right now and will more than likely get another mamba but maybe a 132 or possibly a 124, but probably the 132 simply based on what you were saying about mushy bottom ends at higher wing loading. the 132 would put me between 1.7 and 1.8.

Thanks for all the info.

[Tommock 0]

Maybe try their demo program before deciding?

http://www.flyaerodyne.com/demo.asp

You can somewhat simulate different wingloads by putting on weights. It's not quite the same, a smaller canopy at the same wingloading will be more twitchy for instance but it will give you an idea.

[Blumpkin 0]

cool beans