ManagingPrime 0 #26 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe point I was trying to make was that in obama's hometown...where the gun control laws are most strict than anywhere else in the nation...didnt make much of a difference to the 500 people who were murdered. I thought he was from Kenya? So you don't know if there is causation or correlation, but you are bringing it forward as an example of such? Homicide rate declined over 40% over 2 decades since 1990, but is now up significantly. The only change in gun laws is that a previous gun ban was overturned in June 2010. I'm NOT claiming cause and effect, but it certainly destroys regulator's implication. During that same period, much of which Chicago led the nation with the most restrictive gun laws, the national murder rate declined by 52.94% while the rate in Chicago only decreased by 43.90%. Me thinks that has a LOT to do with demographics and very little to do with gun control. Did I claim otherwise? You seem to be stating that prior to the gun ban murders were increasing, during the gun ban they decreased and after the ban was lifted they started to increase. The numbers are the numbers, are the numbers... however, it seems that you think that gun bans actually have the effect of decreasing murders. At least in the case of Chicago the numbers just simply do not show this to be the case. I'm of the opinion that the gun laws in Chicago had little to no effect on the murder rate. If people are actually discussing gutting our constitution to address violence in America I have a better proposition than banning guns....penal colonies. While the proposition is just as ridiculous , I guarantee you it will be much more effective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #27 December 28, 2012 QuoteQuotethe overwhelming majority are gang-on-gang shootings Yes. Fuller Park and Garfield Park are rough places. I've read some stuff suggesting that handguns are now a greater percentage of murder weapons in Chicago. And I am pretty disappointed that gang violence is viewed as a way to kinda minimize it. They are people, too. Gang on innocent citizens, too. From what I've read, not too many communities want to admit they have a gang problem. I've checked it out and there is not a state in the Union that does not have a gang or gangs. For example, I lived in a city here in West Texas that had several gangs but the word 'gang' was never mentioned on the t.v. news or in the papers. Police officers I knew there, confirmed it was in fact a gang related murder. The city is just in denial. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #28 December 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe point I was trying to make was that in obama's hometown...where the gun control laws are most strict than anywhere else in the nation...didnt make much of a difference to the 500 people who were murdered. I thought he was from Kenya? So you don't know if there is causation or correlation, but you are bringing it forward as an example of such? Homicide rate declined over 40% over 2 decades since 1990, but is now up significantly. The only change in gun laws is that a previous gun ban was overturned in June 2010. I'm NOT claiming cause and effect, but it certainly destroys regulator's implication. During that same period, much of which Chicago led the nation with the most restrictive gun laws, the national murder rate declined by 52.94% while the rate in Chicago only decreased by 43.90%. Me thinks that has a LOT to do with demographics and very little to do with gun control. Did I claim otherwise? You seem to be stating that prior to the gun ban murders were increasing, during the gun ban they decreased and after the ban was lifted they started to increase. The numbers are the numbers, are the numbers... however, it seems that you think that gun bans actually have the effect of decreasing murders. Ummm NO, I was careful NOT to make that claim. I very specifically stated that I did not claim causality. See post #8 of this thread.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
