Toyota knew that uncontrolled acceleration was electronics-related

[Icon134 0]

Quote

"Toyota's strategy (should be) to fix them, fix them immediately and at no cost, and do it as quickly and effectively as you can so after the dust settles, your car's value won't have depreciated much," said Edward C. Martin, a law professor at Cumberland School of Law at Samford University in Birmingham, Alabama.

You know... I bet Toyota would mostly agree with this statement...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[billvon 2,471]

>>I didn't see them make that claim. Do you have a link?

>Toyota has denied that its electronic throttle is to blame

Yeah, I saw that. Do you have any links to the actual claim? After the San Diego Prius nonsense I place less faith in the press to report on such things accurately.

[likearock 1]

Quote

>>I didn't see them make that claim. Do you have a link?

>Toyota has denied that its electronic throttle is to blame

Yeah, I saw that. Do you have any links to the actual claim? After the San Diego Prius nonsense I place less faith in the press to report on such things accurately.

Well, further on in the article, they say:

Quote

"We do not believe that electronics are at the root of this issue," Toyota spokesman Mike Michels said Monday.

So combined with the fact that none of the recalls have addressed electronic issues, what more are you looking for?

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

No argument there. But then again, it's only Toyota that has ended up in this massive shitstorm. Why is that? Is it just bad luck? Prejudice against Japanese? Or is it just possible that the sequence of events (including what is described in the article above) is yet another object lesson of how the cover-up is always worse than the crime itself.

It's pretty much all of these things. There's clearly a political aspect to this. GM is gaining at the cost of Toyota, and it's not merely because TOY has a problem now. Take some minor design flaws on the user interface, couple possible underlying faults in the mechanical/electrical design, and then snowball in a bunch of lawyers and fraudsters, along with the media hungry for any story that isn't Health Care and you get this current storm.

And fundamentally, is it actually really hard to debug a problem that only affects hundreds of cars out of millions on the road. You don't have reliable data during the time of the incident, and you can't repeat it on demand. (yes that Northwestern prof who's part of the litigators claimed to, but Toy responded to that with their own professor). When I get IT questions about weird occurrences that can be repeated, it usually is operator error.

Be wary of tv shows that purport to show these things happening. They're quite willing to fabricate. In the 90s Dateline settled a lawsuit with GM after they strapped rockets to a truck to make it burst into flame for the camera to (lie) show that their gas tanks were prone to catching fire.

[likearock 1]

Quote

Quote

No argument there. But then again, it's only Toyota that has ended up in this massive shitstorm. Why is that? Is it just bad luck? Prejudice against Japanese? Or is it just possible that the sequence of events (including what is described in the article above) is yet another object lesson of how the cover-up is always worse than the crime itself.

It's pretty much all of these things. There's clearly a political aspect to this. GM is gaining at the cost of Toyota, and it's not merely because TOY has a problem now. Take some minor design flaws on the user interface, couple possible underlying faults in the mechanical/electrical design, and then snowball in a bunch of lawyers and fraudsters, along with the media hungry for any story that isn't Health Care and you get this current storm.

I don't know. I guess I have enough faith in capitalism to believe that something like this does not just happen to a company that "did everything right" (TM). I think Toyota played some role at least in getting themselves in this position.

Quote

And fundamentally, is it actually really hard to debug a problem that only affects hundreds of cars out of millions on the road. You don't have reliable data during the time of the incident, and you can't repeat it on demand.

True, but these occurrences are going to lead to mandatory "black boxes" installed in cars same as airlines. An indelible digital record of all inputs and events can be made available in incidents like this.

[billvon 2,471]

>So combined with the fact that none of the recalls have addressed
>electronic issues, what more are you looking for?

?? I'm not looking for anything. Sounds like a good solution for you would be to not get a Toyota; you seem to dislike them.

[likearock 1]

Quote

>So combined with the fact that none of the recalls have addressed
>electronic issues, what more are you looking for?

?? I'm not looking for anything. Sounds like a good solution for you would be to not get a Toyota; you seem to dislike them.

I'm happy with my mini cooper. I do have friends with Toyotas though and it seems like a raw deal that they're getting. OTOH, if you're not concerned about resale value and plan on keeping the car, it might be nice to pick up those class action $s. I'd say you deserve it for all the crap that's gone down.

[billvon 2,471]

> I do have friends with Toyotas though and it seems like a raw deal that
>they're getting.

I have one and it's been good to us. No raw deal I can see.

> OTOH, if you're not concerned about resale value and plan on keeping
>the car, it might be nice to pick up those class action $s.

Eh, it would be easier to just hurt myself at the DZ and sue someone there. (If I were into that sort of thing, which I'm not.)

[likearock 1]

Quote

> OTOH, if you're not concerned about resale value and plan on keeping
>the car, it might be nice to pick up those class action $s.

Eh, it would be easier to just hurt myself at the DZ and sue someone there. (If I were into that sort of thing, which I'm not.)

I see a distinction between taking money from fellow skydivers on a dropzone and getting compensated from one of the richest corporations in the world. Especially when the actions/inactions of said corporation lead to a material devaluation of my car. YMMV.

I'm sure if they send you a check, you can always send it back.

[billvon 2,471]

>I see a distinction between taking money from fellow skydivers on a
>dropzone and getting compensated from one of the richest corporations
>in the world.

So if the person has more money, it's more ethical to file lawsuits purely for money? Interesting. PD has a lot of money lately, and of course the DeHaviland aircraft corporation has millions. Heck, Perris has a wind tunnel.

> Especially when the actions/inactions of said corporation lead to a
>material devaluation of my car.

??? The instance of runaway acceleration in Toyotas is not significantly higher than the instance in other car companies. The press caused the devaluation of your car by sensationalizing deceptive cases; why wouldn't you sue them? Is it just that Toyota has more money?

From my perspective, when you skydive, you are risking death; don't skydive unless you accept that. The plane can crash, your gear can fail, someone else could kill you - gear, airplanes and other people are not perfect. You can minimize the risk by good training and good judgment. Driving's not too much different (although the risk overall is a lot lower.)

[likearock 1]

Quote

> Especially when the actions/inactions of said corporation lead to a
>material devaluation of my car.

??? The instance of runaway acceleration in Toyotas is not significantly higher than the instance in other car companies. The press caused the devaluation of your car by sensationalizing deceptive cases; why wouldn't you sue them? Is it just that Toyota has more money?

It's not just the press. Take a look at the link in post #22. I'd say that Toyota has been operating in bad faith for some time now and it's caught up with them. Clearly, you don't think they've done anything wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree.