Gawain 0 #26 February 21, 2008 Quote Quote So I guess my point in posting is I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts as to whether this has any deeper significance for anybody as to what it reflects about the shape of the country, politics, voting public, etc. Thoughts? Actually this isn't too bad compared to some other countries/etc. A 40 year old Cuban had the same president for about 39 years and 364 days. A 70 year old Tibetan has known but one Dalai Lama. A 28 year old Roman Catholic will have only known two Popes--especially unusual given that the papacy seems to be an old man's job. I lived in Canada to young adulthood and only knew two effective prime ministers--Trudeau and the Right Honourable Lyin Brian--with a few brief soujourns by others. Just three British sovereigns--George III, Victoria, and Elizabeth II--have accounted for more than two-thirds of the time since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. It could be worse, we could be in Italy, they've had what...16 prime ministers in 17 years? And, they're about to hold another election...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,673 #27 February 21, 2008 Quote Though I don't know if this has any significance, it did strike me as odd that someone could be 28 years old and have seen this "lack" of variety in the White House. Thoughts? How's this for lack of variety in my lifetime: Truman lied about US involvement in "French Indo-China" Eisenhower lied about spy plane overflights of USSR Kennedy lied about Bay of Pigs Johnson lied most every time he opened his mouth Nixon lied whenever his lips moved, but especially about US troops in Laos and Cambodia, and about Watergate Ford lied about East Timor Carter lied about some firings Reagan lied, but couldn't recall what he lied about Bush1 lied about Iran/Contra and "read my lips". Clinton lied about a BJ Bush2 lied about Iraq, warrantless wiretaps, the cost of the medicare prescription program.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #28 February 21, 2008 Quote Quote Quote So I guess my point in posting is I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts as to whether this has any deeper significance for anybody as to what it reflects about the shape of the country, politics, voting public, etc. Thoughts? Actually this isn't too bad compared to some other countries/etc. A 40 year old Cuban had the same president for about 39 years and 364 days. A 70 year old Tibetan has known but one Dalai Lama. A 28 year old Roman Catholic will have only known two Popes--especially unusual given that the papacy seems to be an old man's job. I lived in Canada to young adulthood and only knew two effective prime ministers--Trudeau and the Right Honourable Lyin Brian--with a few brief soujourns by others. Just three British sovereigns--George III, Victoria, and Elizabeth II--have accounted for more than two-thirds of the time since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. It could be worse, we could be in Italy, they've had what...16 prime ministers in 17 years? And, they're about to hold another election... In 2001 (I think it was), Argentina had something like 5 presidents over a span of about 3 weeks. From the general feel of the responses, it doesn't seem to be significant that 3 of the last 4 presidents were 2-termers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #29 February 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteYou complain (as always) about the deficit under Bush. Shouldn't every responsible citizen complain about the deficit? Yep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,673 #30 February 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou complain (as always) about the deficit under Bush. Shouldn't every responsible citizen complain about the deficit? Yep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least. Right - they should stop voting for GOP presidents and pay up their taxes instead of griping about them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #31 February 21, 2008 Quote Quote Though I don't know if this has any significance, it did strike me as odd that someone could be 28 years old and have seen this "lack" of variety in the White House. Thoughts? How's this for lack of variety in my lifetime: Truman lied about US involvement in "French Indo-China" Eisenhower lied about spy plane overflights of USSR Kennedy lied about Bay of Pigs Johnson lied most every time he opened his mouth Nixon lied whenever his lips moved, but especially about US troops in Laos and Cambodia, and about Watergate Ford lied about East Timor Carter lied about some firings Reagan lied, but couldn't recall what he lied about Bush1 lied about Iran/Contra and "read my lips". Clinton lied about a BJ and his sexual harassment of women. Bush2 lied about Iraq, warrantless wiretaps, the cost of the medicare prescription program. Since I know you wouldn't feel comfortable putting your hero on the same level as the rest of the crooks I fixed your post for you. You are quite welcome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #32 February 21, 2008 QuoteYep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least. Our Founding Fathers offered citizens protections that allowed them to peacefully complain about their government, so those who complain about such unnecessary wastes of national resources as the war in Iraq are, in fact, helping by making politicians aware that the war is unpopular. Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh tried a different approach to protest the federal response at Waco and Ruby Ridge, but it didn't seem to work out too well for anyone. What exactly would you suggest as an alternative?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #33 February 21, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote You complain (as always) about the deficit under Bush. Shouldn't every responsible citizen complain about the deficit? Yep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least. Right - they should stop voting for GOP presidents and pay up their taxes instead of griping about them. I rest my case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #34 February 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteYep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least. Our Founding Fathers offered citizens protections that allowed them to peacefully complain about their government, so those who complain about such unnecessary wastes of national resources as the war in Iraq are, in fact, helping by making politicians aware that the war is unpopular. Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh tried a different approach to protest the federal response at Waco and Ruby Ridge, but it didn't seem to work out too well for anyone. What exactly would you suggest as an alternative? I would suggest doing exactly what you posted, only keep in mind that complaining about taxes, wars, etc. on an internet chat does nothing to help the problem. All of our elected representatives can be reached via e-mail, snail-mail, telephone, etc. It is to those people that concerns must be addressed. Preaching to the choir does nothing but make for a noisy church service. There are many here on SC who complain constantly about one or two aspects of our country almost daily. With a simple copy-paste sequence they could e-mail those same posts to their reps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #35 February 21, 2008 QuoteHi all, I was listening to a sports radio show and they made a joke about a writer who didn't want to say how old he was, but that he said he won an award during the presidency of a president from a long time ago (i don't remember who it was). Anyway, it got me to thinking that for someone born in 1980 (not me, I am a couple years older than that), they would have only been alive through 4 different Presidents - Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr (and i realize that there's a lag between being elected and actually getting into office - then make it 4 prezes since '81). Though I don't know if this has any significance, it did strike me as odd that someone could be 28 years old and have seen this "lack" of variety in the White House. So I guess my point in posting is I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts as to whether this has any deeper significance for anybody as to what it reflects about the shape of the country, politics, voting public, etc. Thoughts? I think it shows a trend in this country for people to vote for the devil they know rather than the one they don't know. It also shows the influence of television on our elections. It has been said that without the benefit of tv, JFK would not have been elected President. Sadly, I think our voter turnout is embarrassing. Men and women have died to protect that right. Many people choose not to vote because they feel there is no candidate worth their vote. It is for those people that we should have, on every ballot, the choice of "none of the above". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #36 February 21, 2008 Quote…keep in mind that complaining about taxes, wars, etc. on an internet chat does nothing to help the problem. I'm not sure I agree with this statement. While I readily acknowledge that internet forums in general have a very low signal to noise ratio, there is a signal in all the noise if one cares to look for it. I can think of a handful of poster with whom I typically disagree, but I still pay close attention to because they are unusually intelligent, reasonable, and often offer insight into an issue that forces me to reevaluate my own position. Even if they don't change my mind, they help me to make better informed decisions. In any democracy, informed voters are a more valuable asset than uninformed voters.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,673 #37 February 21, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote You complain (as always) about the deficit under Bush. Shouldn't every responsible citizen complain about the deficit? Yep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least. Right - they should stop voting for GOP presidents and pay up their taxes instead of griping about them. I rest my case. So you're going to vote for the Dem this time, to become part of the solution instead of part of the problem?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #38 February 21, 2008 QuoteIn any democracy, informed voters are a more valuable asset than uninformed voters. Agreed without any doubt. I don't feel internet chats contribute in any significant way to help our countries problems unless those chats are specifically for that purpose. While there are posters who have more education than the rest, that means little to me. (Some of the most intelligent people I know, including the single most intelligent person i ever met, never had education past high school.) While there have been posts with valid information, almost every person who posts here (I'll admit I'm included) has, a one time or another, put up information that is, shall we say, "slanted". One has the responsibility to separate the good from the not-so-good info. That is why i feel these chats are not a good place to gather information on which to base your vote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #39 February 21, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote You complain (as always) about the deficit under Bush. Shouldn't every responsible citizen complain about the deficit? Yep! Every citizen should also do something to help solve the problem. A BIG part of the problem is that those who complain the most, help the least. Right - they should stop voting for GOP presidents and pay up their taxes instead of griping about them. I rest my case. So you're going to vote for the Dem this time, to become part of the solution instead of part of the problem? I said in another thread that if this election comes down to Obama vs. McCain I would feel comfortable voting for either based on what I know at this time. However, there are a few months left to learn about each candidate and their positions. To say today that I would vote for a candidate from one party would be irresponsible to say the least. I do not vote according to party, nor do I vote on one issue alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #40 February 21, 2008 Quote I lived in Canada to young adulthood and only knew two effective prime ministers--Trudeau and the Right Honourable Lyin Brian Trudeau and Mulroney are two of Canada's worst ever PMs. Both of them racked up massive debts levels. Trudeau forced his vision of confederation down the throats of the country (to this day Quebec still has not signed on), he forced the country into official bilingualism which has been a complete waste of money and he (temporarily) destroyed the economy of the West to appease the voters in Ontario and Quebec with his ####ed up National Enegery Program which forced the West to sell it's resources to Ontario and Quebec below market values. No I am sorry the late Pierre Elliot Trudeau and his son Justin with his left learning political ambitions to continue where his father left off can kiss my sorry ass. Despite that the hard core Liberals believe PET to be the savior to the Liberal cause, to many of us in the West, we view PET as one of Canada's worst ever PMs. Now Lying Brian Mulroney wasn't much better with his arrogant corrupt ways. Those two sorry ass excuses for a Canadian politician created the Reform movement. Canadian PMs I remember as a youth/adult: Pierre Trudeau (Liberal) Joe Clark (Conservative) Pierre Trudeau (Liberal) the unelected John Turner (Liberal) Lying Brian Mulroney (Conservative) the unelected Kim Campbell (Conservative) Jean Chretien (Liberal) Paul Martin (Liberal) Stephen Harper (Conservative) US Presidents I remember as a youth/adult: Richard Nixon (GOP) the unelected Gerald Ford (GOP) Jimmy Carter (DEM) Ronald Reagan (GOP) George HW Bush (GOP) Bill Clinton (DEM) George Walker Bush (GOP) - IMHO the worst ever US Prez But if one wants to look to little change in political leadership, one only needs to look at Alberta premieres (like Alberta or hate Alberta, they have had little change in the last 37 years). Alberta premieres I remember as a youth/adult: Peter Lougheed (Conservative) Ralph Klien (Conservative) the unelected Ed Stelmach (Conservative) BTW: Ed Stelmach is in the midst of his first election campaign as a leader, so assuming he wins the provincial election a few weeks from now, he may be able to shed himself from that "unelected" label. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #41 February 21, 2008 QuoteWhile there have been posts with valid information, almost every person who posts here (I'll admit I'm included) has, a one time or another, put up information that is, shall we say, "slanted". One has the responsibility to separate the good from the not-so-good info. That is why i feel these chats are not a good place to gather information on which to base your vote. I agree. That's what I was referring to when I mentioned the low signal to noise ratio. However, after sifting through, identifying and discarding the noise, there really is some good information to be found here. One nice thing about skydiving is the community is made up of a very eclectic sample of the population. I won't claim skydivers are an unbiased, random sample, but we do get a very wide variety of people in these forums, nonetheless. I've learned some fascinating things from various different people posting on a topic in their area of expertise. For example, I once read a post from a government accountant (or similar position; it's been a few years) explaining how a hammer can appear to cost $90 (or whatever ridiculously high amount for a simple hammer). Billvon has posted numerous detailed, yet readable, explanations of evolution and global warming, typically with several sources, which have given me a better starting point for additional information than Google or Wikipedia alone could have done. We have regulars that have worked on the space shuttle program. Heck, we even have a real live nearly-famous porn star in our midst who has from time to time dispelled myths about that industry. One does have to sift through the noise, but if they are willing to do that, there is some good information available.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,673 #42 February 21, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Though I don't know if this has any significance, it did strike me as odd that someone could be 28 years old and have seen this "lack" of variety in the White House. Thoughts? How's this for lack of variety in my lifetime: Truman lied about US involvement in "French Indo-China" Eisenhower lied about spy plane overflights of USSR Kennedy lied about Bay of Pigs Johnson lied most every time he opened his mouth Nixon lied whenever his lips moved, but especially about US troops in Laos and Cambodia, and about Watergate Ford lied about East Timor Carter lied about some firings Reagan lied, but couldn't recall what he lied about Bush1 lied about Iran/Contra and "read my lips". Clinton lied about a BJ and his sexual harassment of women. Bush2 lied about Iraq, warrantless wiretaps, the cost of the medicare prescription program. Since I know you wouldn't feel comfortable putting your hero on the same level as the rest of the crooks I fixed your post for you. You are quite welcome. Well, if you want to list ALL the lies of ALL of the above, you will spend an awfully long time typing. Nixon and Johnson alone could fill a book. Not to mention Bush2. Oooh, there's more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KelliJ 0 #43 February 21, 2008 whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #44 February 21, 2008 QuoteFrom the general feel of the responses, it doesn't seem to be significant that 3 of the last 4 presidents were 2-termers. Nope...it just puts them in a "more exclusive" version of what is already a very, very small club.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
