"Your Papers, Please", Ohio Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Receipt at Circuit City

[Zipp0 1]

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I've got it. How about I wear a sign on my chest that says "This patron does not consent to searches by store employees and any attempt at unlawful detention will be met with appropriate force."

There. They have their signs, I have mine.

(wipes hands together signifying a completed job, well done)

How about you stay the fuck out of thier store if you dont like thier policies??

How hard is that??

How about No? They have no right to policies that violate the law. How about that?

They have their signs, I have mine.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[willard 0]

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>I suspect that if a store had a habit of asking it's patrons to bend over
>and take it up the ass then they wouldn't have much of a customer base.

This is america. If such a store offered their goods for a few cents cheaper than nearby stores, everyone would patronize the more-invasive store. Indeed, the stores that were more polite/respectful to their customers would quickly go out of business. Capitalism in action.

I believe you would be correct in that assumption. I, for one, have no problem showing my receipt if it helps prevent theft and thereby keeping prices even 1% lower. Is it giving up any of my rights? I don't think it does, it only requires that I put forth a minimum of effort.

But if I am asked to bend over and take it in the ass then I will turn around, get a refund, and never go there again.

[willard 0]

Now that just makes too much sense!

[jlmiracle 7]

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I'll bet large money you could be heard berating a young girl for objecting to having her clit scraped off with a piece of flint [female circumcision] by the tribal elder. "Who do you think you are, Miss Freedom Fighter?!?!?!" "Cant you just be a productive member of society?!?!?!"

My God but you are so well ...socialized.

WTF? Not sure what having your clit scraped (which I never mentioned) has to do with showing a receipt.


I think you are highly confused with my posts. I am very aware of the horrors or female circumcision, I have opinions on what should happend to those that carry it out but that would be a whole different thread. I am not a freedom fighter. I have no problem showing my receipt or giving a cop my name and address if asked.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[willard 0]

Asking to show your receipt is not against the law. Requiring to show your receipt may or may not be, I don't know. But if it is legal, then what are going to do?

[Zipp0 1]

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Now that just makes too much sense!

Actually, it doesn't. Just about every store does this shit now, so I wouldn't be able to shop anywhere. The fact is, they have no right to search and detain people who did nothing wrong.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Zipp0 1]

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Asking to show your receipt is not against the law. Requiring to show your receipt may or may not be, I don't know. But if it is legal, then what are going to do?

If a law is passed requiring everyone to prove they are not a thief before they are allowned to leave a store, we have bigger problems.

What will I do? Probably disobey the law.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

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How about No? They have no right to policies that violate the law. How about that?

It is their Store. Their rules. You do not have to shop there. If you do not like their rules, Don’t go in. Some stores have a 7 day return policy, Other have a 30 day.. Some store check receipts, some don’t.. All these are factors you can CHOOSE to use when deciding on where to buy stuff.

This typical Liberal Bullshit mentality of "I am a Victim" and "What about my rights" When you KNOW full well what the deal is when you go in make a purchase is just a bunch of pansy ass cry babies that refuse to live up to their part of a deal.
The deal being, They will sell you This item for this price.. But to maintain that price they must keep shrinkage under control by doing receipt checks. You get the item at the price and then want to Bitch and whine when it comes to holding up your part of the deal.

I know the concept of personal responsibility is foreign to many of you.. But some of us like being able to make choices and understand that some choices have consequences. Want to shop at the Big Box store, gotta let them check your receipt against the Bag (This is NOT a search.. it is a simple verification)
We can shop at stores that have this policy, or we can shop at stores that do not.

As I said before, This could also benefit the consumer as well as the store if done properly. Have you ever bought groceries (or anything else) and then realized when you got home that something you paid for was not in the bag?? I know I have several times.
This extra check also helps make sure you HAVE all the items you paid for. Humans make mistakes. This saves everyone money. If the cashier forgot to ring something up (What they are really looking for) or if someone switched Barcode labels and The items do not match the receipts.. These are all valid reason to double check things.

If you don’t like this, then don’t shop there but if you Choose to shop there knowing full well what the policy is and then want to make an ass out of yourself, I HOPE the store can take some type of legal action against you for wasting everyone’s time.

[billvon 2,473]

>I, for one, have no problem showing my receipt if it helps prevent theft
>and thereby keeping prices even 1% lower.

Agreed.

>But if I am asked to bend over and take it in the ass then I will turn
>around, get a refund, and never go there again.

I also agree. However, I have yet to see any store that asks their customers to consent to anal sex. (No doubt they exist - but I suspect that such places of business charge extra for that!)

[Zipp0 1]

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How about No? They have no right to policies that violate the law. How about that?

It is their Store. Their rules.

Wrong. Their rules cannot violate the law or my rights. That's a fact, and calling it "liberal bullshit" does not make it false. I am not a liberal, by the way.

You call it a verification, I call it a search. Maybe next they can come out to the car and 'verify' you have nothing stolen in your trunk.

And I don't know what the fuck personal responsibility has to do with this. You think that they have the right to search your bag of your property that you own, and I think they DO NOT have that right. I think they should use cameras and security people to catch crooks and leave the innocents to go about their business.

And I will shop where I want, thank you very much.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

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And I will shop where I want, thank you very much.

So rules should not apply to you?? Why?

You agree to shop there knowing this is their policy. This policy enables them to sell merchandise at a certain price. You get the item at that price but refuse to accept responsibility for your part of the transaction..

Nothing illegal about trying to protect both you and them. Make sure you get what you paid for (everything you paid for and nothing more).

That is it. No one is searching anything. They count the items on the receipt and count the items in leaving the store.

If you dont want to allow this, Dont shop there. Buy online (where they will also do this but you are not standing there when they do. Someone pulls the order (After you have paid BTW) and someone else verifies the order matches the Items being shipped. Are they also "Violating your rights?? You already paid.. So by your definition.. They are searching your property)

[DSE 3]

It's actually a conservative viewpoint to refuse to show government-issued identification to a police officer, not liberal. By definition, liberals want individuals to be less individual and more components of a collective.
Not showing a receipt would fall into the same viewpoint of conservatism.
That said, I've become pretty liberal in my older years, but have on many occasions refused to show "papers" to law enforcement (which has been a problem more than once).

The bigger point, IMO, is that this guy wants to stand up for his rights. Lawfully or not, I feel respect for anyone wanting to protect their individual rights, property, etc.

Hoping not to hijack here....but a man in our state may be charged with defending himself when a gang-banger shot at his house. He shot and killed the gangbanger. After the gangbanger shot at the man and his home, the man ran inside, grabbed a gun, ran back outside, and shot the gangbanger. There are several witnesses that say the guy did not have the weapon when the shooting began.
So why is he being charged? Because he's a felon not legally able to use, possess, or have access to a weapon.

Michael Righi is a folk hero of sorts, I hope he prevails.
The store has a right to protect their assets/property. No argument from me.
So put the register closer to the door, don't put merchandise in walkways post-register, and treat persons with respect, not as though they're thieves.
I disagree with Righi regarding the license. The license would have shown his DOB, place of residence, and verified he was telling the truth with regard to his name. The officer would have allowed him to walk, and I believe he'd still have a valid legal complaint against Circuit City for unlawfully detaining him and treating him as though he were a criminal.

[willard 0]

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How about No? They have no right to policies that violate the law. How about that?

It is their Store. Their rules.

Wrong. Their rules cannot violate the law or my rights. That's a fact, and calling it "liberal bullshit" does not make it false. I am not a liberal, by the way.

You call it a verification, I call it a search. Maybe next they can come out to the car and 'verify' you have nothing stolen in your trunk.

And I don't know what the fuck personal responsibility has to do with this. You think that they have the right to search your bag of your property that you own, and I think they DO NOT have that right. I think they should use cameras and security people to catch crooks and leave the innocents to go about their business.

And I will shop where I want, thank you very much.

It's private property. You give up certain rights when you enter private property. You have the right to piss on your rug in your home but not at someone elses unless they give you that right. You have the right against unlawful search, but asking for or even requiring a receipt is not a search.
Once again, it is private property. You don't have the right to be there unless you abide by their rules. Your rules mean nothing when on their property.
Don't like it? To bad. Go get some cheese to go with your whining.

[Thanatos340 1]

The liberal comparison comes from people wanting something for nothing.

There is no real search being conducted. They are comparing the receipt to the items leaving the store to make sure no mistakes were made.

Now if they were frisking people or having people empty their pockets of such, I would be the first to be outraged. That is not the case.

In order for stores to keep prices down, they must control shrinkage. One way to do this is with the Receipt checks. People that want to pay the lower price (That has receipt check factored into that price) but not allow the receipt check.. Well that is the typical liberal mentality of something for nothing.

Also this is not the State or Government doing this. This is something we have a complete choice about. We can accept the terms of sale or we can shop elsewhere or we could even [GASP!!!} do without the new big screen TV all together..

But the liberals would tell you that we all have a RIGHT to Big Screen TV and free Oprah all day wheather we pay or not.

[Zipp0 1]

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And I will shop where I want, thank you very much.

So rules should not apply to you?? Why?

They cannot open their doors to the public and set rules that violate the law. Or maybe they can set them, but I have no responsibility to obey. I believe that stopping/detaining innocent people is against the law. I don't care if it's 5 minutes or 5 seconds. They need to catch the crooks and leave me alone. Or have a policy that they search EVERYONE. That would be less offensive to me.

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That is it. No one is searching anything.

Stopping me and looking in my bag is a search.

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If you dont want to allow this, Dont shop there.

It is there responsibility not to violate the law. If they illegally search or detain me, they will be the ones in trouble, not me.

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Buy online (where they will also do this but you are not standing there when they do. Someone pulls the order (After you have paid BTW) and someone else verifies the order matches the Items being shipped. Are they also "Violating your rights?? You already paid.. So by your definition.. They are searching your property)

I do buy online. I see the online purchase as different. The goods are not mine until I recieve tham. Up to that point I could refuse delivery and reverse charges.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[billvon 2,473]

> It's actually a conservative viewpoint to refuse to show
>government-issued identification to a police officer, not liberal.

Generally liberals support individual rights (i.e. the ACLU) and conservatives tend to side with law enforcement in such issues. Consider which candidate would be more likely to make a big deal over "TOUGH ON CRIME."

[Thanatos340 1]

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Or have a policy that they search EVERYONE.

That is the policy everywhere I have seen.. (Although I still disagree that it is a search.) EVERYONE must show a receipt to leave with items. They are comparing the items against the receipt (Just like the online fulfillment centers do) to avoid and catch human mistakes before you leave the store.

For them to compete with online shops where they also do this, They MUST be able to keep shrinkage under control.

Counting the items and comparing that to the receipt is not even remotely close to a Search. It is a simple check for booth your benefit (Did something get left out of the bag?) and their benefit (Did something extra get put in the bag?)

This is factored into the price you paid. If you do not agree to this then you should be paying extra (Or shopping elsewhere).

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The goods are not mine until I receive them. Up to that point I could refuse delivery and reverse charges.

Then why not Wait to consider the items bought at the store "Yours" until you leave the store??

What makes paying for something online (its is YOURS RIGHT THEN by your definition.) different from buying in a store. The item is yours when you leave the store.. Till them you can "refuse delivery and reverse charges" and/or return items just like online.

[jlmiracle 7]

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Or have a policy that they search EVERYONE.

Costco does, but apparently some people don't/won't cooperate. Now, I bet even Mike Vick would show a receipt, unless of course he had a gun, then he should just go to Iraq and take out his culture on them especially since he beat his girlfriend with apples and oranges when he found out she had an abortion because she didn't want to raise her love child with Senator Craig because of the threat of global warming. Let's all pray to God for them and maybe sacrifice a couple goats. I think all stores should let people's dogs and cats do the shopping - they don't have any rights do they? Maybe the cats and dogs could sniff out all the lead paint, when they aren't busy sniffing out drugs in the parking lot with all the skateboarders.


j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Zipp0 1]

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Then why not Wait to consider the items bought at the store "Yours" until you leave the store??

If they are willing to put the little credit card swipe thing right at the exit, that would be OK. Once I pay they need to keep their grubby little paws off my shit and out of my bag.

You seem to imply that I don't want to stop crooks. On the contrary, I want them all to be caught, but they need to leave me out of the process.

I'd like to see some proof that these scanners at the exits stop theifs anyway. If the shit is in a purse, that they do not check, tell me, how does this help? The bag matches the reciept and the crook is on his/her way. Is that how it works?

They need to catch the crooks in the act and leave everyone else out of it.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

I think what you are missing here is that the primary purpose is NOT to stop crooks. It is to catch human error.

Items are scanned at the register. Sometimes they double scan the same item, other times they Miss scanning an item.

The receipt check is a simple verification process. Count items ion receipt, Count items leavening the store. See if they match.

That is what they are doing.

You are NOT being searched. In no way, shape, form or fashion!! They are counting the items to make sure you got everything you paid for and that they rang up everything you have.

If they find an extra item, You will most likely not even be accused of theft. they will just ask that you return and pay for the item. If you are missing an item, They can catcvh it before you leave and you can go back to the register and get your item that is probably still right by the end of the register.

This is about reducing shrinkage. Not all shrinkage is due to theft. Much of it is due to human error at check out.

Checking your receipt is NOT calling you a thief, It is NOT searching you.

[jlmiracle 7]

I think it all comes down to the defination of "it".

J

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Zipp0 1]

Maybe the stores you go to are different. At the stores I am talking about a siren goes off and a red light starts flashing when you leave the store. After that they want to look through your bags. This is usually caused by a tag not being properly deactivated by the cashier, or by someone carrying out something not scanned at all (a thief).

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

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At the stores I am talking about a siren goes off and a red light starts flashing when you leave the store. After that they want to look through your bags.

And all this time I thought we were talking about the receipt checkers at Circuit City, Best Buy, Sams Club, Costco and other major stores.

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is usually caused by a tag not being properly deactivated by the cashier, or by someone carrying out something not scanned at all (a thief).

I have had this happen to many, Many times at mall stores (I have a 15 year old daughter, I get to spend alot time in mall stores.). I have never been accused of stealing. Just return and let the cashier remove the tag. Or usually it is just I am waived on.

again.. I have never been searched at any store. I do have the items I am leaving with counted and compared with the receipt at most Big Box and electronics stores though.

This article that we are discussing is about Circuit City BTW. Not an alarm going off.. but a receipt checker that checks every single item leaving the store against a receipt and someone that wanted to make a point.

[Zipp0 1]

When the alarm goes off they want to check your receipt. They run after you "Sir! Sir!....." etc.

The Circuit City and Best Buy in my area have never had receipt checkers.

Christ, maybe I should start stealing there.....

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

well then let em tell you what is comming...

Someone by the door will check every single Item leaving the store against a receipt. That is the way MOST large stores around here work now. Every Best Buy, Comp USA, Sams Club and Costco that I know of is doing this 100% of the time.

They have found that it really cuts down on shrinkage. (Not theft) but shrinkage.. Human mistakes made at cash registers.