sundevil777 93 #51 March 13, 2007 Quote>It was a bad decision to do it at all. ?? They didn't. They read a short excerpt. And you know, if they had done a piece from Romeo and Juliet, and no one had said anything, then no one would have cared. Had the principal threatened to suspend them for "disobeying" his order to not do Romeo and Juliet, then some people would now be outraged - OUTRAGED! - over the presentation of a play that glorifies underage sex and suicide. We as a country need to grow back our spine. >Performing even a portion of such a play that depicts pedophilia as a >good thing and if full of overt sexuality is not appropriate for a school, I think. Well, it's a whole lot better than most of Shakespeare's stuff, even though a reading of Shakespeare at the same event got no notice (and thus no notoriety.) Since you're repeating yourself, without addressing my reply to the first time you expressed this sentiment about Romeo and Juliet, I'll repeat myself: QuoteRomeo and Juliet got married at an early age, but that was ordinary at the time, and they were both young, I believe. The suicide in Romeo and Juliet is portrayed as a tragedy, a bad decision. The "good rape" in the Vagina Monologues is portrayed as a positive event in the girls life. I don't remember Romeo and Juliet including long detailed discussions about their genitals. Big difference, I think. Also, I think it incorrect to characterize Romeo and Juliet as "glorifying underage sex and suicide".People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #52 March 13, 2007 >and for us, Catcher in the Rye Well, it's a good thing your school didn't read it, then! Or you'd all have ended up as alcoholic dropouts and assassins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #53 March 13, 2007 Quote>and for us, Catcher in the Rye Well, it's a good thing your school didn't read it, then! Or you'd all have ended up as alcoholic dropouts and assassins. well....alcoholic dropouts maybe....but it's certainly not from reading a book. So many of us graduated without learning to read. At least we were kept safe from vulgar literature.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #54 March 13, 2007 >Also, I think it incorrect to characterize Romeo and Juliet as "glorifying >underage sex and suicide". Well, I think it's incorrect to characterize The Vagina Monologues as depicting pedophilia as a good thing. So there ya go. >I'll repeat myself . . . Reading posts before you reply to them can save you from repeating yourself! Romeo and Juliet promotes underage sex. Underage sex is not the same as pedophilia. >I don't remember Romeo and Juliet including long detailed discussions >about their genitals. "Tis all one, I will show myself a tyrant: when I have fought with the men, I will be civil with the maids, and cut off their heads." "The heads of the maids?" "Ay, the heads of the maids, or their maidenheads; take it in what sense thou wilt." ---------------- (After discussing "doing" the maidens): "Draw thy tool! here comes two of the house of the Montagues." "My naked weapon is out: quarrel, I will back thee." ---------------- "By her fine foot, straight leg and quivering thigh / And the demesnes that there adjacent lie, / That in thy likeness thou appear to us!" (Demesnes refers to plowed fertile lands, or female genitals in Shakespearean times.) --------------- "This cannot anger him: 'twould anger him / To raise a spirit in his mistress' circle / Of some strange nature, letting it there stand / Till she had laid it and conjured it down." (You can guess what that's about.) ----------------- "Now will he sit under a medlar tree, / And wish his mistress were that kind of fruit / As maids call medlars, when they laugh alone" (Medlars were slang for prostitutes due to their resemblance to loose female genitalia.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #55 March 13, 2007 I don't know how "if it was a rape, it was a good rape" can be interpreted as anything but depicting at least this particular incident of pedophilia as a good thing. No need to consider the historical context of what was underage at the time.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #56 March 13, 2007 QuoteI don't know how "if it was a rape, it was a good rape" can be interpreted as anything but depicting at least this particular incident of pedophilia as a good thing. No need to consider the historical context of what was underage at the time. Actually, it's not depicting pedophilia at all. Pedophilia, by definition, involves sexual encounters with prepubescent, rather than just underage, children.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #57 March 13, 2007 QuoteWRONG! ... Deleted: 270 words of vitriol ... That describes you quite well. It's simultaneously sad and amusing to watch you drive yourself into a rage over me. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #58 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteWRONG! ... Deleted: 270 words of vitriol ... That describes you quite well. It's simultaneously sad and amusing to watch you drive yourself into a rage over me. maybe it's one of those subconsciously "wanting you" kinda things. You know it's a really thin line between love and hate.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #59 March 13, 2007 Quotemaybe it's one of those subconsciously "wanting you" kinda things. You know it's a really thin line between love and hate. I see your point but I think I shouldn't speculate. It would drive him even further into his rage. I'll just see where it goes naturally. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #60 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteI don't know how "if it was a rape, it was a good rape" can be interpreted as anything but depicting at least this particular incident of pedophilia as a good thing. No need to consider the historical context of what was underage at the time. Actually, it's not depicting pedophilia at all. Pedophilia, by definition, involves sexual encounters with prepubescent, rather than just underage, children. If you want to use a definition of child as being pre-pubescent, then I suppose that definition is valid. I don't think the law sees it that way. The rules of this forum also prohibits us from joking about pedophilia. I confident that the line is not drawn at the point of puberty. Perhaps you think the rule should be clarified to agree with your definition. I don't understand the point of the distinction that you make. Is it OK as long as the minor child has gone through puberty? Is there another word more appropriate than pedophile when the minor is post-pubescent?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #61 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteWRONG! ... Deleted: 270 words of vitriol ... That describes you quite well. It's simultaneously sad and amusing to watch you drive yourself into a rage over me. OK, you are easily amused. That's not my fault. You're once again pretending to read my mind. You vastly overestimate your ability to gauge my rage (that rhymes - cool!) Again, please don't pretend to read my mind. You, however, have made it clear in your own words that you enjoy pushing the buttons of conservatives to piss them off. Just a few days ago I thought we were engaging in useful debate. Was that not as much fun as snide remarks? You're still communicating with me, even if you're not contributing to the debate.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #62 March 13, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteWRONG! ... Deleted: 270 words of vitriol ... That describes you quite well. It's simultaneously sad and amusing to watch you drive yourself into a rage over me. maybe it's one of those subconsciously "wanting you" kinda things. You know it's a really thin line between love and hate. Maybe your comment is one of those subconsciously "I want to insult a straight person, so I'll imply their gay" kinda things.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #63 March 13, 2007 I don't understand the point of the distinction that you make. Is it OK as long as the minor child has gone through puberty? It's not okay if the child has gone through puberty. It's different, though. Is there another word more appropriate than pedophile when the minor is post-pubescent? I think it's just called statutory rape. So I guess the person would be called a rapist.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #64 March 13, 2007 Shakespeare is mild compared with Chaucer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #65 March 13, 2007 Did you actually read the description I wrote of the full scene? The part about the girl telling her story, being abandoned by the woman after that one night, and ending up in prison? I'm not certain how you see this portrayed as a good thing. Something that may seem 'normal' and 'right' to you as a child doesn't make it either 'normal' or 'right', which was the freaking point of that monologue. The confusion about herself and how the 2 molestations of her life (one consentual, one not) affected her profoundly as an adult. If you see any movie with Hitler in it, he's pretty happily condemning Jews to death and torture. If you take that one scene, quote that one scene, you can portray the entire movie about being pro-Nazi, even if the reality isn't the case. I know what it's like to be 8-15 years old and molested every day by another woman, so for me to be able to see into the heart of that monologue and be able to defend it honestly is a big deal. Child molestation is far from something I take lightly... but it is a part of my life 'story', just like it was a part of that particular monologue. It doesn't make it right, but it's a part of the tale. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZJ 0 #66 March 13, 2007 Quote Shakespeare is mild compared with Chaucer.Funnily enough, the 'banned book' when I was at school was Chaucer's The Miller's Tale. It was curiously missing from our year 7 editions of The Canterbury Tales... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
