Is anyone still stupid enough to believe that the Repubs are for worker's rights?

[willard 0]

"You keep saying the Republican party is against workers rights, safety, and decent wages. Is that another assumption of yours or do you have something to prove it? From your original post I gather they are protecting a workers privacy. Whether or not you think that privacy is a right is irrelevent."

Still waiting. I'll keep checking back in case you decide to put something up that can hold water.

[Lucky... 0]

and there are in Oregon and Washington, yet they have a great safety record. Done being silly yet?

[Lucky... 0]

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But there are in Michigan, Maine and Minnesota. Not many in Nevada, either.

They harvest cacti in Nevada

[Lucky... 0]

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Still waiting. I'll keep checking back in case you decide to put something up that can hold water

The Nazi Party:

- Fought the minimum wage Bill

- Passed the Overtime Bill

- Fights organized labor laws

- Killed the Ergonomics Bill

- Disallows strikes by labor

- Helps bust unions

- And every shot at labor they can,

But I guess that's purely coincidental too, huh?

So to add that the RTW states, which I believe are exclusively red states, provides far lower wages and has a far worse safety record as for workplace fatalities is just also coincidental

Really, don't you think it looks silly arguing a position that makes Republicans the beacon for workers?

Address those instead of running from them. Are they untrue? Answer these:

Did the Republican Party:

- Fight the minimum wage Bill

- Pass the Overtime Bill

- Fight organized labor laws

- Kill the Ergonomics Bill

- Disallow strikes by labor

- Help bust unions

- And every shot at labor they can?

Please, if you are unawre I will post any cites you need me to. Just ask, I'm here to help . So go ahead and acquiesce or refute any of those. While you're at it, show me how the Dems may have ever done anything direct to harm labor. Please, your args about raise taxes, hurt business, hence close factories won't work unless you can cite how it has directly affected that.

I'm looking for direct legislative acts aimed at labor, as in the Overtime Bill, now law that revoked overtime from millions of workers by way of shifting them to management, meaning they still have to work the hours, just w/o pay.

[sundevil777 94]

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So when you deal with people who are unwilling to address issues imperically, well, you're masturbating.

.

It wasn't all that I said, as if I'm the first person to throw in a little humor once in a while.

So, you would say that the worst states in some particular statistic are RTW states, therefore the fact of being an RTW state is what causes that poor result.

I thought the witch made of wood was a good analogy to that position...

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Lucky... 0]

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So, you would say that the worst states in some particular statistic are RTW states, therefore the fact of being an RTW state is what causes that poor result.

Yes I would say that. As for some particular stats, uh no. These aren't some stats, these are the most important stats when it comes to labor; wages and safety, can you think of any more important?

OK, so why is it that RTW states fare the lowest with wages and safety? Is it that unions fight for wages and regulation? I think so. Can you argue that? Is it a coincidence that as I see it all or virtually all RTW states are red states? See there is just too much here to draw a casual conclusion that it is just coincidence. This is all inferential data, very strong inferential data that leads a reasonable person to conclude that Republicans aren't for labor. Answer the list of Repub goodies I listed and see if you can refute it.

[sundevil777 94]

That is not logical. The cause effect relationship may be present, maybe not.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[willard 0]

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Still waiting. I'll keep checking back in case you decide to put something up that can hold water

The Nazi Party:

- Fought the minimum wage Bill

- Passed the Overtime Bill

- Fights organized labor laws

- Killed the Ergonomics Bill

- Disallows strikes by labor

- Helps bust unions

- And every shot at labor they can,

But I guess that's purely coincidental too, huh?

So to add that the RTW states, which I believe are exclusively red states, provides far lower wages and has a far worse safety record as for workplace fatalities is just also coincidental

Really, don't you think it looks silly arguing a position that makes Republicans the beacon for workers?

Address those instead of running from them. Are they untrue? Answer these:

Did the Republican Party:

- Fight the minimum wage Bill

- Pass the Overtime Bill

- Fight organized labor laws

- Kill the Ergonomics Bill

- Disallow strikes by labor

- Help bust unions

- And every shot at labor they can?

Please, if you are unawre I will post any cites you need me to. Just ask, I'm here to help . So go ahead and acquiesce or refute any of those. While you're at it, show me how the Dems may have ever done anything direct to harm labor. Please, your args about raise taxes, hurt business, hence close factories won't work unless you can cite how it has directly affected that.

I'm looking for direct legislative acts aimed at labor, as in the Overtime Bill, now law that revoked overtime from millions of workers by way of shifting them to management, meaning they still have to work the hours, just w/o pay.

What you are showing is that the Republican party is anti-union. No problem, for the sake of argument I'll give you that.

But being anti-union is not the same as being against workers rights. It is the unions who want to make all labor unionized without regard for the wishes of the individual worker. And it is the unions who want to strip away a workers privacy when voting for/against unionization.

You still have to show where the Repubs are against worker rights, not just against the unions.

[Lucky... 0]

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you are right, unions were a great thing at one time.

And they're not now? Hmmm, perhaps you missed that entire page where I posted all kinds of data to establish that RTW states pay far lower and have many more work-related fatalities. Hmmm, not needed now huh? Really? I guess low pay and on-the-job fatalities are overblown.

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It is still a great concept, if not abused

Companies are greedy, you have to put them in a bind and leverage them to pay more, as companies try to put workers in a bind to get them to work cheaply. It's a 2-way street and calling abuse on both sides i probably fair. There is no congenial meeting when talking about millions of dollars.

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unfortunatly that is not the case.

And as we see by the data, states that allow for RTW laws have fewer unions that are disempowered, so the abuses ring loudly that way.

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I do believe that if companies treat their workers right, there wouldn't be a need to unionize.

That we agree upon. If I worled for a company w/o a union and that co treated me great, I would reciprocate and chase away any union. Even tho SW Airlines is union, under Herb Keller they really didn't need one and there was no strife as far as I know. Companies beg for unions to come into their company by way of horrible treatment.

[Lucky... 0]

The data is so massive that it infers there is a correlation between RTW states and low wages / poor safety regs. If you just resist to believe it, then I could have a notarized statement from every employer in RTW states saying they love to undermone employees and you could still believe otehrwise. There is a point at which we should believe OJ is guilty; get the analogy?

Here is other supporting data to further establish RTW states, which are red states and Repubs are against worker's rights, to further convince objective people that all of this data correlates:

The Nazi Party:

- Fought the minimum wage Bill

- Passed the Overtime Bill

- Fights organized labor laws

- Killed the Ergonomics Bill

- Disallows strikes by labor

- Helps bust unions

- And every shot at labor they can,

It's further away from reason to think that companies in RTW states don't take advantage of the laws to undermine their employees, than it is close to reason and not by just a little bit.

If you're looking for a notarized affidavit, keep waiting, if you are willing to do what we all have to do when deciding issues, look at the great weight that represents a conclusion that RTW states pay less an are less safe, RTW states are red states, Repubs have done all they can to undermine workers, etc..... Can you refute any of the previous data and legislative acts? Eventualy one must be honest with themselves.

[Lucky... 0]

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What you are showing is that the Republican party is anti-union. No problem, for the sake of argument I'll give you that.

Praise Jebus, we're taking baby steps. Uh, the notion that Repubs are anti-union is prima fascie. No sake of argument, hell, they base their platform on busting unions and underpaying.

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But being anti-union is not the same as being against workers rights.

OK, let's apply deduction to that. Where do workers get the most rights? Well, we've beaten it to death, but non-RTW states have the highest pay and safest working environments, and these 2 elements are the most important factors, so the connection is made that Repubs are against worker's rights. I'm not saying they hatethem, just that Repubs are pro-business and in order to make teh most profit they must control labor; nothing personal against labor, just for money.

A deductive tool in logical reasoning is called a syllogism. It goes like this:

Major premise: Unions give workers rights
Minor premise: Republicans dislike unions
Conclusion: Republicans dislike worker's rights

I don't see how you can disconnect the two, if Republicans dislike unions, and unions are what enforce worker's rights, then Republicans are against worker's rights.

Don't act as if I'm saying Republicans hate workers, they just hate paying workers so they use the fascism tool that the US has adopted since Reagan and they bust unions to exploit labor.

How can you agree that Republicans hate unions, yet think they are for worker's rights? I have established that these RTW states which are exclusively red I believe are lower paying and far less safe. What part of the puzzle is missing?

[mnealtx 0]

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This thread is about clean union elections, RTW states have the highest rates of injury and death as well as being below the national average for wages. Address that.

Why, yes...this thread IS about clean union elections - so why do you keep bringing up right to work states and wages?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Looking at a comparison of the cost of living in the state capitols of your top/bottom states -

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The cost of living in Hartford, Connecticut is 43.6% higher than that of Jackson, Mississippi. A salary of $32,397 in Jackson, Mississippi has the same buying power that a salary of $46,534 has in Hartford, Connecticut.

Looks like cost of living plays a rather large part of the difference in salaries. Of course, admitting that takes rather a lot of wind out of your 'assertions', so I understand why you didn't normalize for it, sort of like your constant arguments about the economy.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[willard 0]

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Major premise: Unions give workers rights
Minor premise: Republicans dislike unions
Conclusion: Republicans dislike worker's rights

Using your logic, PETA fights for animal rights, I dislike PETA, so I must be against all animal rights.

Or newpapers stand for our right to free speech. I don't like newspapers, therefor I am against the right to free speech.

That logic is faulty. Whether one group dislikes another doesn't determine whether they also are against what that group stands for.

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I have established that these RTW states which are exclusively red I believe are lower paying and far less safe. What part of the puzzle is missing?

No, the only thing you have established is that you think there is a connection and that you think that union states are safey because of the unions. You have not proven anything yet, only presented some data that can be interpreted many ways (4 of the 5 least safe states are non-rtw), much less proven a cause-effect relationship between the unions and the safety-salary levels of those states.

Keep trying, though. Maybe somewhere along the way you'll learn something the unions don't want people to know.

[Lucky... 0]

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This thread is about clean union elections, RTW states have the highest rates of injury and death as well as being below the national average for wages. Address that.

Why, yes...this thread IS about clean union elections - so why do you keep bringing up right to work states and wages?

Actually the thread is entitled, Is anyone still stupid enough to believe that the Repubs are for worker's rights? The thread is about the Republican reaction to worker's rights and I used the union drive as an example. The thread title sets the stage for the thread intent.

There is a vast difference bewteen worker treatement in RTW states (all red states) and non-RTW states, as well Repubs do all tehy can to thwart unions, so I'm drawing an argument that Republicans are against wrokers rights.

You and others that want to debunk this can do so from 2 angles:

- attempt to impeach my argument

- create an affirmative defense to my assertions

The former would be what a likely guilty defendant would do in a criminal charge using misdirection and smoke/mirrors, the latter the best defense where you get your own evidence from another source and create an independent argument. I see which you have tried.

[Lucky... 0]

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Looking at a comparison of the cost of living in the state capitols of your top/bottom states -

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The cost of living in Hartford, Connecticut is 43.6% higher than that of Jackson, Mississippi. A salary of $32,397 in Jackson, Mississippi has the same buying power that a salary of $46,534 has in Hartford, Connecticut.

Looks like cost of living plays a rather large part of the difference in salaries. Of course, admitting that takes rather a lot of wind out of your 'assertions', so I understand why you didn't normalize for it, sort of like your constant arguments about the economy.

Nice, a sample size of 1. Most of the deaths result from manual labor, not office managers I think we all agree, someone on your side made that assertion, so these are low paid workers in many cases anyway. I think Kallend's data read construction laborers were near the top of the list of most dangerous jobs. SO you have not tied in wage to your argument foe a few reasons, namely sample size of your data.

Furthermore, you have not even touched the issue of safety, which Kallend debunked by posting that mine workers were far down on the list of most dangerous jobs.

Instead of creating an entire argument, you're poking straws trying to pop the balloon.

Do you really think Repubican politicians are here to help workers? If so, explain all of the legislative acts they have done. Do you think Republican politicians are pro-union? If so establish how?

[Royd 0]

Since I don't have time to read through every post to find a proper segway I will simply put forth my point.

Admittedly, unions have brought up the wages a worker recieves, and possibly have increased job saftey, but at what cost to the truly free man?

Unions tend to force people into situations which do not allow for personal advancement according to one's abilities and energy level.

I can only use myself as an example. I was raised to believe that you give a day's work for a day's pay, regardless of the wage. At the end of the day I am better off than the slacker who intentionally did half as much work because he didn't feel like he was making enough money.

I know that I am a rare case, but when I worked for someone else and finished up my assigned job at 2 p.m., and knew that starting something else was a waste of motion and time, I wouldn't find a hiding place until the end of the day.I would rather be home goofing off than doing it on the job.

When the boss starts looking at the books and sees that profits and production are going downhill, which worker do you think is going to be the first one to the chopping block? The self motivated worker, or the intentional slacker.

One of the best things that can happen to anyone is to become self employed. You would definitely approach work with a different perspective than someone who does just enough work to keep from getting fired.

You learn how to think and approach a task as effeciently as possible. This also includes saftey issues, which I have a good knowledge of.

If I neglect a power cord that could roll under my foot when I'm 20 ft. up on a scaffold, it could be all done with for me.

If unions were about wages and saftey they wouldn't be a problem. They are about gouging what they perceive as the enemy, which is the company owner. The person, who, through self motivation and hard work has put away enough money to be considered successful by the world's standard.

Maybe someone should form the Effecient, Hard Workers Union, then noone would be getting the short end of the stick.

[willard 0]

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Looking at a comparison of the cost of living in the state capitols of your top/bottom states -

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The cost of living in Hartford, Connecticut is 43.6% higher than that of Jackson, Mississippi. A salary of $32,397 in Jackson, Mississippi has the same buying power that a salary of $46,534 has in Hartford, Connecticut.

Looks like cost of living plays a rather large part of the difference in salaries. Of course, admitting that takes rather a lot of wind out of your 'assertions', so I understand why you didn't normalize for it, sort of like your constant arguments about the economy.

Nice, a sample size of 1. Most of the deaths result from manual labor, not office managers I think we all agree, someone on your side made that assertion, so these are low paid workers in many cases anyway. I think Kallend's data read construction laborers were near the top of the list of most dangerous jobs. SO you have not tied in wage to your argument foe a few reasons, namely sample size of your data.

Furthermore, you have not even touched the issue of safety, which Kallend debunked by posting that mine workers were far down on the list of most dangerous jobs.

Instead of creating an entire argument, you're poking straws trying to pop the balloon.

Do you really think Repubican politicians are here to help workers? If so, explain all of the legislative acts they have done. Do you think Republican politicians are pro-union? If so establish how?

Gee, that's nice. Make claims about the Republican party, then instead of providing facts to back those claims you want others to prove they are false. It's not up to us to prove you are wrong. It's up to you to prove you are right. Typical union tactic.

[Lucky... 0]

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Using your logic, PETA fights for animal rights, I dislike PETA, so I must be against all animal rights.

If animal rights means not being hung by their hooves for hours until the blood runs out of their bodies into their heads for better meat, yes, you are against animal rights. But here's the fallacy to your example, PETA focuses on lab animals and farm animals rather than pets, so to say ALL animals shows desperation to debunk a very old logical tool, the syllogism.

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Or newpapers stand for our right to free speech. I don't like newspapers, therefor I am against the right to free speech.

If you have a general disloke for newspaper's right to deliver the news, then you dislike dissemination of teh news. Can you quit poking very thin straws and make a substantial argument? NO.

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No, the only thing you have established is that you think there is a connection and that you think that union states are safey because of the unions.

I have established:

- RTW states pay less
- RTW states have less safety
- RTW states are all red (w/o checking I believe they are)


And yet you want to believe that Republicans are for worker's rights. Yet you have not posted examples of what the Republican Paty has done to benefit workers. You have the following:

- Republicans fight to keep union voting drives private

Is that fucking it? Furthermore, what the union wants is to make the cards count as votes so an election is not neccessary, so not not sign a card is not a no vote, but merely an abstainance from the vote.

Amazing how you guys are out of gas, but won't conceed.

[Lucky... 0]

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Since I don't have time to read through every post to find a proper segway I will simply put forth my point.

A recap:

- RTW states are or virtually all red
- RTW states have amongst the lowest pay in the nation, I posted a list of averge salaries on page 5 or 6
- RTW states have amongst the highest death rates on teh job, again a list is on 5 or 6.

I have concluded that epublicans are not for worker's rights, the other side has yet to provide anything but that the Repubs are fighting for private union elections, but have failed to provide any legislative or other examples of the measures the Repubs have done for workers.

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Admittedly, unions have brought up the wages a worker recieves, and possibly have increased job saftey, but at what cost to the truly free man?

What is freedom to an AMerican? ISn't money and representation a large part of that? I'm not sure how a man is less free by being union. They can tell the union to back off if there is litigation needed for any issue, there are no rights surrendered.

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Unions tend to force people into situations which do not allow for personal advancement according to one's abilities and energy level.

Not true and if a guy is a real go-getter, management can pick them up.

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I can only use myself as an example. I was raised to believe that you give a day's work for a day's pay, regardless of the wage. At the end of the day I am better off than the slacker who intentionally did half as much work because he didn't feel like he was making enough money.

So you assume that union workers don't work hard? That's unfair and teh assmbly line moves regardless of anything else, so there is no slacking. Assuming the union worker is a slacker is just stereotypical and general.

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When the boss starts looking at the books and sees that profits and production are going downhill, which worker do you think is going to be the first one to the chopping block? The self motivated worker, or the intentional slacker.

You have both types in union and non-union shops. When it comes time to cut nuts, who's going, the $10/hr kid that can do teh job or $25/hr old guy that has tons of seniority and is slower than he used to be?

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One of the best things that can happen to anyone is to become self employed. You would definitely approach work with a different perspective than someone who does just enough work to keep from getting fired.

Agreed.

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If unions were about wages and saftey they wouldn't be a problem. They are about gouging what they perceive as the enemy, which is the company owner. The person, who, through self motivation and hard work has put away enough money to be considered successful by the world's standard.

Most unions are in large factories, so that really isn't usually the case. They do look at the company as the enemy and vice versa. The union is between the company and the worker so the company can exploit the worker. With the union there, they cannot exploit the worker, so it is a fight; either rollover and be exploited or fight for wages/conditions.

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Maybe someone should form the Effecient, Hard Workers Union, then noone would be getting the short end of the stick.

This is akin to the death penalty args, 98%+ of all convicted murderers are guilty and should die for the shit they've done, but there is a sliver of innocent people that get in teh system too. Most of union workers produce as muck as their counterparts in non-union shops, but there scumbags who use the union as a shelter. SO are we supposed to fuck all of the good workers to fuck the lazy ones? Haven't you seen lazy workers at non-union jobs?

[Lucky... 0]

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Looking at a comparison of the cost of living in the state capitols of your top/bottom states -

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The cost of living in Hartford, Connecticut is 43.6% higher than that of Jackson, Mississippi. A salary of $32,397 in Jackson, Mississippi has the same buying power that a salary of $46,534 has in Hartford, Connecticut.

Looks like cost of living plays a rather large part of the difference in salaries. Of course, admitting that takes rather a lot of wind out of your 'assertions', so I understand why you didn't normalize for it, sort of like your constant arguments about the economy.

Nice, a sample size of 1. Most of the deaths result from manual labor, not office managers I think we all agree, someone on your side made that assertion, so these are low paid workers in many cases anyway. I think Kallend's data read construction laborers were near the top of the list of most dangerous jobs. SO you have not tied in wage to your argument foe a few reasons, namely sample size of your data.

Furthermore, you have not even touched the issue of safety, which Kallend debunked by posting that mine workers were far down on the list of most dangerous jobs.

Instead of creating an entire argument, you're poking straws trying to pop the balloon.

Do you really think Repubican politicians are here to help workers? If so, explain all of the legislative acts they have done. Do you think Republican politicians are pro-union? If so establish how?

Gee, that's nice. Make claims about the Republican party, then instead of providing facts to back those claims you want others to prove they are false. It's not up to us to prove you are wrong. It's up to you to prove you are right. Typical union tactic.

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Looking at a comparison of the cost of living in the state capitols of your top/bottom states -

Quote

The cost of living in Hartford, Connecticut is 43.6% higher than that of Jackson, Mississippi. A salary of $32,397 in Jackson, Mississippi has the same buying power that a salary of $46,534 has in Hartford, Connecticut.

Looks like cost of living plays a rather large part of the difference in salaries. Of course, admitting that takes rather a lot of wind out of your 'assertions', so I understand why you didn't normalize for it, sort of like your constant arguments about the economy.

Nice, a sample size of 1. Most of the deaths result from manual labor, not office managers I think we all agree, someone on your side made that assertion, so these are low paid workers in many cases anyway. I think Kallend's data read construction laborers were near the top of the list of most dangerous jobs. SO you have not tied in wage to your argument foe a few reasons, namely sample size of your data.

Furthermore, you have not even touched the issue of safety, which Kallend debunked by posting that mine workers were far down on the list of most dangerous jobs.

Instead of creating an entire argument, you're poking straws trying to pop the balloon.

Do you really think Repubican politicians are here to help workers? If so, explain all of the legislative acts they have done. Do you think Republican politicians are pro-union? If so establish how?

Gee, that's nice. Make claims about the Republican party, then instead of providing facts to back those claims you want others to prove they are false. It's not up to us to prove you are wrong. It's up to you to prove you are right. Typical union tactic.

I was just offering a chance at an affirmitive argument for you. See, you could put a quick end to this argument if you produced a list of things the Republicans have done for workers over the last 50 years, preferably more contemporary. Here's your list:

- Uh, trying to keep union ballots private

THAT'S FUCKING IT!!!!! YOU'RE OUT OF GAS AFTER THAT.

Here's my list of what Republicans have done to worker's rights:

- Fought the minimum wage Bill

- Passed the Overtime Bill

- Fights organized labor laws

- Killed the Ergonomics Bill

- Disallows strikes by labor

- Helps bust unions

The Dems do the reciprocal. So that list doesn't fully indicate that Republicans are against worker's rights? One more time:

- Worker's get their rights thru unions (Royd just asserted that)

- Republicans hate unions (you even said so)

- Therefore, Republicans are not for worker's rights.

I'm just curious as to why you resist the obvious, is it that you want to make Republicans look sensitive and caring to the poor and underclass? Is it that you're an ideologue and find yourself a Republican and a worker, hate to think your party fucks labor? Sorry man, provide exmples of what your party has done to benefit labor.... I'm all ears.

[willard 0]

If i don't like newspapers, it may be because of the ink, it may be because of the layout, there are any number of reasons. I may even start a campaign to have newspapers banned. But that doesn't mean I am against freedom of the press. Repubs may be against the unions, but hat doesn't mean they are against worker rights. That's a bullshit conclusion and you know it.
Who's out of gas? You keep chanting the same ol' lines...."Repubs are against worker rights. RTW sates pay less and are less safe." But, as i have said to many times already, you have not provided any proof. It is not up to me to disprove your theory. If you make claims then the proof is for you to provide, which you have not done. Claims by the unions are not proof! They are just more claims.
You can't make the claim that the only people who are for workers rights are the unions, yet that is essentially what you are saying. The unions represent what, 25%-30% of the workforce? That means 70%-75% are not union. Does that mean those 70% don't care about their rights in the workplace? No, it just means they have not chosen to let a union represent them.
Not everyone wants to be in a union. For the unions to come into a shop on a 51%-49% vote and force the minority to join and give them money is a blatant violation of a workers right. Or are you going to say that workers don't have that right?
You have made claims, resorted to calling Rebublicans "Nazis", and have presented no proof. As I said before, that is typical of the unions. Repeat a lie enough times and maybe someone will believe it. Like their claims about card counts. Are really so naive to think the unions only want this for expediency? Are you so naive to think they won't take notice of who refused to sign the cards? Time to step out of the union hall for a while and get back in touch with reality.

[akarunway 1]

I worked const. 25 yrs. Got fucked all the time by employers. I joined the union 5 yrs. ago. Tripled my pay and will have a small pension. And all the brothers (most) work their asses off. Their are slackers everywhere in the world. Union or non union. And as I posted awhile back the NLRB headed by the GOP lately is handing down all sorts of anti union measures. And the GOP would love to see OSHA go away

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[willard 0]

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I worked const. 25 yrs. Got fucked all the time by employers. I joined the union 5 yrs. ago. Tripled my pay and will have a small pension. And all the brothers (most) work their asses off. Their are slackers everywhere in the world. Union or non union. And as I posted awhile back the NLRB headed by the GOP lately is handing down all sorts of anti union measures. And the GOP would love to see OSHA go away

Glad to hear it. I'm all for a fair wage and benefits. As an employer I paid our experienced welders prevailing wage and their insurance, plus really good vacation package. (After 5 years they got three weeks paid, plus an extra 40 hrs pay each week. So, basically double pay while on vacation). But you had a choice. That is the point of RTW, to give workers that choice. The unions, knowing more members means more money coming in and more influence, don't want workers to have that choice.

I agree, there are slackers both union and non-union.

[mnealtx 0]

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There is a vast difference bewteen worker treatement in RTW states (all red states) and non-RTW states, as well Repubs do all tehy can to thwart unions, so I'm drawing an argument that Republicans are against wrokers rights.

I can use your same numbers and draw the conclusion that the cost of living is higher in union states because of the union. You still haven't proven the connection.

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The former would be what a likely guilty defendant would do in a criminal charge using misdirection and smoke/mirrors, the latter the best defense where you get your own evidence from another source and create an independent argument. I see which you have tried.

Wow, you mean like your constant mantra of "what about the debt" whenever anyone posts numbers to show that the economy is stronger?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706