Random drug-testing at FL high school

[HeatherB 0]

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBDN1J5OXE.html

Good idea? Bad idea? Whatcha think? Parents?

Tampa Catholic is my alma mater...that is why I found the article. (Go Crusaders!)

[AdD 1]

WTF, that's what you get for going to a Catholic school.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[ExAFO 0]

Private school-you play by their rules. Don't like it, go fuck yourself.

It's a good idea. Drug convictions render one ineligible for federal student loans. Kids are stupid, they'll take the momentary buzz over the fairly nebulous prospect of student loan ineligibility in the future.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Darius11 12]

Bad Idea- Drug convictions render one ineligible for federal student loans.

Some of the greatest minds in our history used drugs and no I am not just talking about musicians, but scientists as well.


Privet schools their rules.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

Bad Idea- Drug convictions render one ineligible for federal student loans.

Some of the greatest minds in our history used drugs and no I am not just talking about musicians, but scientists as well.


Privet schools their rules.

The latter point you give trumps the former.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBDN1J5OXE.html

Good idea? Bad idea? Whatcha think? Parents?

Tampa Catholic is my alma mater...that is why I found the article. (Go Crusaders!)

On the legal front. Fine, if they want to exercise their rights as a private organization to be creeps, ok. But STFU about vouchers and choice, then.

On the social aspects- the places most likely to do such things are the ones least likely to actually need it. My (public) high school in Orange Co had undercover people trying to score drugs. Couldn't.

I've never had to do drug testing, but it's pretty clear that it's a degrading process with all the safeguards made to ensure it's your piss being provided. The most useful test would be for alcohol - does that only show up if you're drinking like a fish?

I thought a lot of Catholics were angry at public schools for teaching material that they believe should only be taught at home. Yet their abdicating their drug policing to the private school?

[HeadCone 0]

When schools implement policies like this (random drug tests, metal detectors, on-campus police, video surveillance cameras, etc...), it doesn't make the school seem safer to me, but more dangerous.

I'd rather not send my kids (if I had any) to a school that felt it had the need to implement this.

--Head

--
Turn off the internet! Join Citizens United Negating Technology For Life And People's Safety!

http://www.citizensunitednegatingtechnology.org/

[HeatherB 0]

Agreed. I think it's outside the scope of a school's responsibility.

I would have been offended if they did this while I was there. I was a good kid with nothing to hide, but sheesh. It's insulting.

The randomness of the testing....think they'll test kids with 4.0 gpas along with the 2.0'ers? ha! ...Hey, if you can carry straight A's while constantly stoned, more power to ya!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

The randomness of the testing....think they'll test kids with 4.0 gpas along with the 2.0'ers? ha! ...Hey, if you can carry straight A's while constantly stoned, more power to ya!

Oh, there was plenty of casual users at Berkeley, so I don't doubt that they could pull top grades in high school.

Far more insulting to me was the stoner that ran sub 5 miles with ease.

[Lindsey 0]

The randomness of the testing....think they'll test kids with 4.0 gpas along with the 2.0'ers? ha! ...Hey, if you can carry straight A's while constantly stoned, more power to ya!

Lots of people do. Five years ago, I'd have been dead set against it. Now I'm not sure. I don't like drug tests for adults, but not a bad idea for minors, imho.

We didn't have random drug tests as kids, but we did get periodic visits by the drug dog. I'll never forget Tommy Hillman's face that one day when they showed up in French class...lol.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Gawain 0]

check --- Private school
check --- Minors under 18 who don't have the same rights as adults

Seems like it's a done deal.

When I was growing up, I was quite mischievous, yet, I was always amazed at how mischievous some of the other kids were too -- especially those that went to some of the other schools that were "elevated" in stature...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

Minors under 18 who don't have the same rights as adults

Which rights specifically do you mean? Without a court order no one will test my children for drugs unless I consent and or my children do. My children have rights just as I do. If I do not trust them or see signs of possible drug use then I as their parent will handle it. If the school thinks my kid is high at school before they order him to pee in a cup they better have a piece of paper in their hand stating my kids name ....urine test.....judge signature all nice and clean in a folder for me to hand directly to my lawyer, but my child will not be subjected to random drug tests and I would fight till I am blue in the face and broke.

Private schools can say they are doing this however if a parent has a issue with it and it was not part of the original contract then the school is in the wrong to change the terms of said contract. If in the middle of a school year the private school told me they decided to add random drug tests I would either A. Demand my children exempt until the contract runs out. or B. Insist on a refund to include any additional costs associated with going to that specific school

If in HS my children choose to enter a school that enacts this and we were aware of it ahead of time I would support their decision to attend however at that point I would consider them committed to the program and would not defend their rights to not be tested if the time came and they changed their mind.

Reasons I think drug testing in schools is bullshit...

1. Its friggen expensive.... at a national avg of 16 bucks per test that adds up. Schools cant afford books, supplies etc yet they want to spend 7 to 35 bucks per random kid that was profiled by administration? Schools are their to educate, NOT to make kids feel as if they have less rights. The constitution is not just for those above 18.

2. In-accurate - Many drugs do not show up in urine tests, also kids who use drugs generally use them less often which also can give a false negative... Yippee we just wasted 16 bucks on a kid smoking dope and now we have this false sense of security and wont pick him again...... Two years later hes got crack going in his veins by an IV laughing at the other kids getting profiled all the while his parents are sitting with their thumbs up their ass with the little piece of paper saying little Johnny is a good boy and doesn't smoke pot.

Ive many other reasons but since my ADHD is kicking in I will end this saying that kids have rights, they also deserve to not have those rights infringed on by means of profiling.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Kennedy 0]

(A) Minors have very few rights compared to adult citizens unless they've been emancipated. The only place I can think of where they have equal or greater rights is in the criminal justice system.

(B) Like the man said, this example is in a private school. If the parents don't like it, they can send their children elsewhere.

(C) While I signed a peice of paper every season saying I would submit to drug tests if the school asked, I never took one for them (I had to take one for a job).

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

(A) Minors have very few rights compared to adult citizens unless they've been emancipated. The only place I can think of where they have equal or greater rights is in the criminal justice system.

Which rights specifically?

Quote

(B) Like the man said, this example is in a private school. If the parents don't like it, they can send their children elsewhere.

Alot of public schools have policies on drug testing and many are trying to find its legal rights in the schools. However just because they are a private school does not mean that they can just take your money then change the rules in regards to rights. If parents paid for one type of contract but the school tried to change it half way through I do not think the school has much ability to force the change while under older contracts with the parents.

Quote

(C) While I signed a piece of paper every season saying I would submit to drug tests if the school asked, I never took one for them (I had to take one for a job).

Thats a choice you made though, and knew what you were signing up for. However had you started a school year with no knowledge of such testing then were called to take one due to "profiling" it would be a different story.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Lindsey 0]

I think the school probably can do decide mid-year to institute drug tests. Workplaces can. If ya' don't like it, you can find a new job. Why wouldn't a private school be able to?

While I hope my child will be smart enough not to start down that path, I'd have no problem with his school having such a policy if the results were left between the school, my son, and me. Were it to become a legal issue, then I'd have a big problem with it.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Quote

(A) Minors have very few rights compared to adult citizens unless they've been emancipated. The only place I can think of where they have equal or greater rights is in the criminal justice system.

Which rights specifically?

Just a few examples:
the right to make contracts,
the right to own real property
the right to sign away their rights, give legal consent
the right to vote
the right to smoke, drink, gamble
and so on

Quote

Alot of public schools have policies on drug testing and many are trying to find its legal rights in the schools. However just because they are a private school does not mean that they can just take your money then change the rules in regards to rights. If parents paid for one type of contract but the school tried to change it half way through I do not think the school has much ability to force the change while under older contracts with the parents.

Unless you've read the contract, I wouldn';t accuse the school of changing it. The odds are there is something in there that they can interpret many different ways, and covers a change in testing policy. If there isn't then the parents have the right to react how they see fit. Some will say right on, come will complain, and some will take their business (their children) elsewhere. Such is life in the private sector.
(where all schools should be,as far as I'm concerned)

Quote

Quote

(C) While I signed a piece of paper every season saying I would submit to drug tests if the school asked, I never took one for them (I had to take one for a job).

Thats a choice you made though, and knew what you were signing up for. However had you started a school year with no knowledge of such testing then were called to take one due to "profiling" it would be a different story.

I did start the public school with no idea that I'd have to agree to testing in order to particpate in activities that my parent's tax dollars had already paid for.

Would you call it profiling that only athletes were subjected to this potential testing? Besides, where did profiling come into this discussion? Weren'y we talking about random tests?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[lisamariewillbe 1]

To Lindsey

Quote

Why wouldn't a private school be able to?

It is fine if the school notified the parents that it has this policy. Most jobs that have drug testing tell you they do, and after you have a accident at the job you get tested as well, generally. Its to see if you are preforming your job without being under the influence. If you were on drugs they can fire you. However it is the law that kids must be in school. So if a kid tests positive for smoking pot, will they kick him out? What about all the false positives? Theres already several stories on how the schools get the report back and ignore the fact the kid was on Rx's and that kid randomally gets picked monthly. School administrators have no right to randomally pick people, unless they pick by some form other then individuals ie SSN ends in 00 to 10 or some other system. However I doubt the tactic is as random as they make it seem.

To Kennedy

Quote

the right to make contracts,

Minors can make and sign into contracts,however unless the parents gave consent to the contract the minor have to keep the contract. If the minor states they are olden 21 then the person they entered into the contract with can sue for damages.

Quote

Minors can not own real property

minors can both own and convey real property

Quote

the right to smoke, drink, gamble
and so on

Its illegal for minors to purchase cigarettes and liquor. However if I wanted to give my kids a beer at home I would be within my legal rights as long as they did not go in public, I would not nor would they be breaking any laws.

Quote

Unless you've read the contract, I wouldn';t accuse the school of changing it. The odds are there is something in there that they can interpret many different ways, and covers a change in testing policy. If there isn't then the parents have the right to react how they see fit. Some will say right on, come will complain, and some will take their business (their children) elsewhere. Such is life in the private sector.
(where all schools should be,as far as I'm concerned)

True I should not assume the school does not have a "blanket waiver" stating they can add or take things away from the contract and simple notify the parents. If this happened to my kids I would want them taken out of the school but by high school age I would let them make the actual decision I guess.

Quote

Would you call it profiling that only athletes were subjected to this potential testing?

Yes I do, first off if anyone should be randomly picked the least likely candidates are those actively involved in school programs. But since it is a violation of rights to drug test the masses at a public school they make it this way for now. The question then is should the kids give up their rights just to participate? Many choose yes because high school sports can lead to real life futures.

Quote

Besides, where did profiling come into this discussion?

How else will people be randomly picked? After accidents yes they will be tested but other then that how can it be random?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[ExAFO 0]

It's all moot-you go to a private school, you play by their rules. If you don't like it, there's a public school down the street...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Private schools can say they are doing this however if a parent has a issue with it and it was not part of the original contract then the school is in the wrong to change the terms of said contract. If in the middle of a school year the private school told me they decided to add random drug tests I would either A. Demand my children exempt until the contract runs out. or B. Insist on a refund to include any additional costs associated with going to that specific school

Good luck, there, LM. The reality is that just for being a complaining parent, private schools can and have kicked out kids. They have total power to break it off, and I don't believe any of those families had luck trying to get some sort of compensation.

[Remster 27]

Quote

However if I wanted to give my kids a beer at home I would be within my legal rights as long as they did not go in public,

I would double check that if I were you. I'm not saying it makes sense, but my understanding of US law makes it's illegal, even at home, in private.

Remster

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

However if I wanted to give my kids a beer at home I would be within my legal rights as long as they did not go in public,

I would double check that if I were you. I'm not saying it makes sense, but my understanding of US law makes it's illegal, even at home, in private.

Regardless. I don't give a fuck about any IMPOSED law. I live by my own law To many politicos sucking off my tit telling me what I can or cannot do. FUCK ALL THEM BASTARDS. Have a nice day

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Lindsey 0]

Quote

Quote

However if I wanted to give my kids a beer at home I would be within my legal rights as long as they did not go in public,

I would double check that if I were you. I'm not saying it makes sense, but my understanding of US law makes it's illegal, even at home, in private.

Yep...you can be arrested, and your children can be taken from you if you give them alcohol in the privacy of your own home.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[lisamariewillbe 1]

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/YouthIssues/1125514259.html

or texas section

Quote

Sec.106.04. CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL BY A MINOR
(a) A minor commits an offense if he consumes an alcoholic beverage.
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the alcoholic beverage was consumed in the visible presence of the minor's adult parent, guardian, or spouse.
(c) An offense under this section is punishable as provided by Section 106.071.
(d) A minor who commits an offense under this section and who has been previously convicted twice or more of offenses under this section is not eligible for deferred disposition. For the purposes of this subsection:
(1) an adjudication under Title 3, Family Code, that the minor engaged in conduct described by this section is considered a conviction of an offense under this section; and
(2) an order of deferred disposition for an offense alleged under this section is considered a conviction of an offense under this section.

Specifically part B where its an affirmitive defense if within the view of parent or guardian.... each state is different. This is off topic so Ill happiliy not keep posting links to state what anyone can find with a goggle search. I gotta go, Kyle needs a shot of tequlia and hes to drunk to get it himself, ya know 7 year olds are lightweights (joking peeps)

edit to add link to my states specic code, http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/leginfo/minorcode.htm

A few sections show that it is legal for minors to be in possoision of liquor and consume it in the presence of thier parents

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Lindsey 0]

WOW! That's cool. We're not so progressive here...lol. Who'da thunk? My father was once charged (but just with a misdemeanor) for letting my then-15-y/o step sister have a sip of his drink at the horse races. They didn't take her away from him, though I bet he was hoping they would....

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

WOW! That's cool. We're not so progressive here...lol. Who'da thunk? My father was once charged (but just with a misdemeanor) for letting my then-15-y/o step sister have a sip of his drink at the horse races. They didn't take her away from him, though I bet he was hoping they would....

Yea , actually most states are like that in some way... Texas actually is more so then I thought. Its actually legal for minors to drink in public here with their parents. Parents can even order drinks for their child. Most states just have it to where you can serve your own at home in the name of responsible drinking. I dont know if Id ever let my kids drink at home as a minor but our parents did. Hell I was the bartender from 10 to 15

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this