no7rosman 0 #76 September 24, 2006 Those pics are useless. --------------- Why? do they look modified? ---------------- So, you agree that many/most of the assertions are crazy, but hold out for an explanation to the "hard ones". The fact that the conspiracy advocates put forth so many crazy ideas should make you wonder why you should believe anything they put forward. ---------------- If you search it on the web you will see there are many people with very hard facts. You can't just discount pictures with no reason...and say that's bullshit with no facts. There are literlly hunderds of pictures posted the pose very good questions. It is funny you comment on my beliefs and people lying to me...but you are the same way. Who is lying to who. ----------------------- Which "hard ones" do you have trouble with. Why do people think that the structure of an airplane is such a solid object? They are designed to withstand aerodynamic forces with as little weight as possible. They do not hold up well to impacting the ground or concrete/steel buildings. -------------------- Good point....Look at this picture and notice the 6 concrete walls it traveled through. Showing the exit hole someone mentioned earlier. I understand these pics could have been modified...but there are lots of them from different people and they all look the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #77 September 24, 2006 I looked at that pic with the hole puched in the wall and I have a question. If some of the stories are true about a missile hitting the building, then why is the outside all burned up but the missile still traveled into the building that distance? The way I understand a missile is they either hit there target and then explode or some even can hit and penetrate a target first then explode. That punchout picture doesn't show either of those situations. It looks like it hit, exploded on impact and then continued on into the building without any further explosions. How is that?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
no7rosman 0 #78 September 24, 2006 I am not sure. I don't know much about missles. In one of the links above it shows the 8 frames of footage from a camera that was released to the public. What ever hit it (there are people who say they saw a much smaller aircraft) can be seen mostly exploding outside the building. It is like the sundevil said...I didn't think structurely an aircraft could penetrate that much concrete. And the holes just aren't big enough to be a 757. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #79 September 24, 2006 http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-photos.html"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #80 September 24, 2006 QuoteI am not sure. I don't know much about missles. In one of the links above it shows the 8 frames of footage from a camera that was released to the public. What ever hit it (there are people who say they saw a much smaller aircraft) can be seen mostly exploding outside the building. It is like the sundevil said...I didn't think structurely an aircraft could penetrate that much concrete. And the holes just aren't big enough to be a 757. I did not mean to imply that. Only that there wouldn't be much left. A 757 is still just a single aisle plane. No bigger in diameter than a 737. How are you measuring the hole to be making such a firm conclusion?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #81 September 24, 2006 QuotePlease Post them. I have not seen any. And I have scoured the net. All of the pictures I have seen show a relatively "clean" lawn at the pentagon. That's what all the news people were saying when they were standing at the fence of the Pentagon moments after it happened too. Why would they be on the lawn? Some pictures are posted below. but since there are no cameras that can capture the whole pentagon and the bodies in the same frame, one can probably said they were planted. QuoteI know which hole was the exit hole. The entrance hole looked very much like it before the roof caved in. These pictures are also posted on the net. It looked like it, but the dimensions allow for the fuselage to make it. the 757 is a narrow body. QuoteThe engine manufacturer issued a report and said that disc was absolutely no part of their engine. It was way to small. Boeing wouldn't comment Who said that? That internet movie? Which engine manufacturer issued that report. If it was a GE engine and Rolls Royce made that statement, then that statement would be true. Why would Boeing comment. They don't make those engines. Quotebut the fires aren't all that hot....Kerosene doesn't burn that hot. I'm a Navy Sailor that had to fight some Class Bravo fires. Kerosene or Jet A or JP 5, may or may not burn that hot, but they can definitely create an atmosphere that can burn that hot. Other things that burn that hot can be caught on fire by burning Jet A. *** You are correct. Only select people were allowed on the site. However there were news reporters with good lenses showing the lawn. Numberous reporters said "We have reports that Airplane hit the Pentagon, but we see no signs of it." These are live reports.Quote How is this a conspiracy? They report what they see and most importantly, what they feel. They usually get that mixed up._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites no7rosman 0 #82 September 25, 2006 Why would they be on the lawn? Some pictures are posted below. but since there are no cameras that can capture the whole pentagon and the bodies in the same frame, one can probably said they were planes ------------------------------------------------------------ I didn't say they would be on the lawn someone else did. Are those pictures posted anywhere where I could read about the source? ------------------------------------------------------------ It looked like it, but the dimensions allow for the fuselage to make it. the 757 is a narrow body. ------------------------------------------------------- That is possible I agree...but where are the holes from the wings and tail section? The engines would have made some damage. They obviously descenigrated inside the pentagon or there would have been remains outside...I can't see where they went in. The edges of the entrance hole can be seen pretty clearly in multiple pictures. Something else I don't understand...The structure was strong enough to crash through all that concrete then just desin. into nothing. The way the exit hole looks...I would have expected the nose cone to be sticking out...Or some piece of the structure. ------------------------------------------------------------ Who said that? That internet movie? Which engine manufacturer issued that report. If it was a GE engine and Rolls Royce made that statement, then that statement would be true. Why would Boeing comment. They don't make those engines. ----------------------------------------------------------- The information came from "Loose Change". Without watching it again I can't remember how the info was presented, however it came from Rolls Royce. They asked Boeing after the engine manufacturer said it wasn't theirs. They wanted to find out if it could have come from a different part of the airplane. ----------------------------------------------- I'm a Navy Sailor that had to fight some Class Bravo fires. Kerosene or Jet A or JP 5, may or may not burn that hot, but they can definitely create an atmosphere that can burn that hot. Other things that burn that hot can be caught on fire by burning Jet A. ------------------------------------------------------------ I understand that, but we are talking about mostly vacant office space. What would have been the accelerant? ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------- How is this a conspiracy? They report what they see and most importantly, what they feel. They usually get that mixed up. ---------------------------------------- It isn't...but if you look at many other airplane crashes...It is not hard to spot the parts of the airplane. Not the case here...In fact you couldn't make out one single piece from the fence. That is where the suspicion comes from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nanook 1 #83 September 25, 2006 Yeah, we can go on forever here. But, my final say here: QuoteThe information came from "Loose Change". This video is not a good reference. It has been proven that most of the Info is pure fabricated lies and information taken out of context to create a rise. It isn't even good enough to be a bad Micheal Moore film._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #84 September 25, 2006 QuoteThis video is not a good reference. It has been proven that most of the Info is pure fabricated lies and information taken out of context to create a rise. It isn't even good enough to be a bad Micheal Moore film. There is a point of the movie where they said a B052 crashed into the Empire State Building and it didnt collapse. To bad it was a B-25 that crashed. Big difference between the two of them. Thats just a small example of the false information in the movie.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #85 September 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteand Elvis is alive on a secret island with JFK. That one is TRUE! Except they're in a nursing home fighting off evil mummies. EVer seen the movie Bubba-Hotep? Yup - cool picture mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #86 September 25, 2006 QuoteIn my opinion, the truth is that the world is a messy place, and even the wealthy and powerful are bungling their way through life. They are oftentimes just as confused & bumbling as the rest of us. Absolutely, look at the tough time even Pinky and the Brain have trying to unleash diabolical plan after diabolical plan after diabolical plan. With that really cool laboratory and all the resources they have, if they can't pull it off, no one can." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #87 September 25, 2006 Context people, context. As in this goofy BS is sponsored by, bought into, and disseminated by the kind of folks who think the moon landings were faked, Planet X is overdue (it apparently made some sharp turns w/o tearing apart and exited the solar system for now, but will be back in 2012), the Illuminati rule, ghosts/poltergeists/etc, the lights of Marfa, alien kidnappings, Roswell/Area 51, and on and on and on. They want so badly to believe and be in on extraordinary stuff (a form of living vicariously by tying yourself to something that is over-the-top outrageous) that it is like arguing religion. Everybody gets to say their piece and express their feelings, and it never really produces anything. (Very much like what often goes on in any large bureacracy)." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #88 September 25, 2006 QuoteThey only write and talk about the theorys that are easy to prove invalid. I agree there a lots of crazy ideas. But they don't address the really hard ones. and going... and going... and going... and going... and going... [breath] and going... and going... and going... and going... Someone asks, "But what about the thermite at the WTC?" and someone replies, "Thermite is made when you combine aluminum, iron oxide (rust), and heat. All would be present after a plane crashed into a building." Someone asks, "But what about the raging office fires in other buildings that didn't bring them down?" and someone replies, "The world trade center was supported by a 'concentric tube' design which could not withstand both the damage to the outer and inner tubes sustained during the impact of the plane, and the damage to the linking trusses sustained during the ensuing fire." Someone asks, "But what about the plumes of debris?" and someone replies, "Pressure build up from collpasing floors can make it's way down the central columns of the building and when it gets to be too much, it will blow out through the weakest points it can find: random windows scattered amongst floors beneath the collapse." Someone asks, "But what about the audio tape that records a loud noise 9 seconds after the plane hits from an adjacent building?" and someone replies, "Do the math, the debris ejected from the impact would take approximately 9 seconds to fall to the streets below. It would make just such a noise when it hit the ground." Someone asks, "But what about the other plane crashes I've seen where debris is obvious. They don't look anything like what was at the pentagon or in Pennsylvania?" and someone replies, "Other plane crashes you've seen involved the pilot doing everything he/she could to keep the plane and the surrounding area as in tact as possible. These crashes involved the pilot doing everything in his power to cause as much damage as possible. They shouldn't look anything alike." Someone asks, "But what about the distance into the pentagon the plane traveled while also disintigrating?" and someone replies, "You don't have to stop an object's forward movement to destroy it. Shrapnel can, and will, continue to impart damage to a target after an initial impact has rendered the 'projectile' unrecognizable. It's how hollow point bullets work." And then six months goes by. And then someone asks, "But what about the thermite at the WTC?" At first, people had legitimate questions about things they did not understand, and under no real obligationto do so, engineers, architects, and scientific publications stepped forward to explain to the general public the hows and whys of it all. The vast majority of people with the questions accepted what was said, maybe discussed it a bit to clarify things, and then got on with their lives. Still there remain a few who, as though it were some kind of exercise in nobility, continue to ask the same questions again and again. But neither joining a discussion late, waiting a while and starting the exact same discussion over, nor amnestically demanding rebuttals do anything to shift the burden of proof to those of us who have accepted what happened five years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites no7rosman 0 #89 September 26, 2006 You are pretty frustrated about this....Calm down!!! I won't keep aruging as I didn't know people here don't work. You proved my point exactly however...All of the things mentioned above are things that absolutely cannot be tested or proven either way. Someone mentioned JFK...If you believe that the official story released was true...You are a minority in America today...why... because of people continuing to call bullshit. Its not because they are "wearing us down", they have evidence. Last post for me. If you want to keep arguing PM me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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no7rosman 0 #82 September 25, 2006 Why would they be on the lawn? Some pictures are posted below. but since there are no cameras that can capture the whole pentagon and the bodies in the same frame, one can probably said they were planes ------------------------------------------------------------ I didn't say they would be on the lawn someone else did. Are those pictures posted anywhere where I could read about the source? ------------------------------------------------------------ It looked like it, but the dimensions allow for the fuselage to make it. the 757 is a narrow body. ------------------------------------------------------- That is possible I agree...but where are the holes from the wings and tail section? The engines would have made some damage. They obviously descenigrated inside the pentagon or there would have been remains outside...I can't see where they went in. The edges of the entrance hole can be seen pretty clearly in multiple pictures. Something else I don't understand...The structure was strong enough to crash through all that concrete then just desin. into nothing. The way the exit hole looks...I would have expected the nose cone to be sticking out...Or some piece of the structure. ------------------------------------------------------------ Who said that? That internet movie? Which engine manufacturer issued that report. If it was a GE engine and Rolls Royce made that statement, then that statement would be true. Why would Boeing comment. They don't make those engines. ----------------------------------------------------------- The information came from "Loose Change". Without watching it again I can't remember how the info was presented, however it came from Rolls Royce. They asked Boeing after the engine manufacturer said it wasn't theirs. They wanted to find out if it could have come from a different part of the airplane. ----------------------------------------------- I'm a Navy Sailor that had to fight some Class Bravo fires. Kerosene or Jet A or JP 5, may or may not burn that hot, but they can definitely create an atmosphere that can burn that hot. Other things that burn that hot can be caught on fire by burning Jet A. ------------------------------------------------------------ I understand that, but we are talking about mostly vacant office space. What would have been the accelerant? ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------- How is this a conspiracy? They report what they see and most importantly, what they feel. They usually get that mixed up. ---------------------------------------- It isn't...but if you look at many other airplane crashes...It is not hard to spot the parts of the airplane. Not the case here...In fact you couldn't make out one single piece from the fence. That is where the suspicion comes from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #83 September 25, 2006 Yeah, we can go on forever here. But, my final say here: QuoteThe information came from "Loose Change". This video is not a good reference. It has been proven that most of the Info is pure fabricated lies and information taken out of context to create a rise. It isn't even good enough to be a bad Micheal Moore film._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #84 September 25, 2006 QuoteThis video is not a good reference. It has been proven that most of the Info is pure fabricated lies and information taken out of context to create a rise. It isn't even good enough to be a bad Micheal Moore film. There is a point of the movie where they said a B052 crashed into the Empire State Building and it didnt collapse. To bad it was a B-25 that crashed. Big difference between the two of them. Thats just a small example of the false information in the movie.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #85 September 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteand Elvis is alive on a secret island with JFK. That one is TRUE! Except they're in a nursing home fighting off evil mummies. EVer seen the movie Bubba-Hotep? Yup - cool picture mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #86 September 25, 2006 QuoteIn my opinion, the truth is that the world is a messy place, and even the wealthy and powerful are bungling their way through life. They are oftentimes just as confused & bumbling as the rest of us. Absolutely, look at the tough time even Pinky and the Brain have trying to unleash diabolical plan after diabolical plan after diabolical plan. With that really cool laboratory and all the resources they have, if they can't pull it off, no one can." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #87 September 25, 2006 Context people, context. As in this goofy BS is sponsored by, bought into, and disseminated by the kind of folks who think the moon landings were faked, Planet X is overdue (it apparently made some sharp turns w/o tearing apart and exited the solar system for now, but will be back in 2012), the Illuminati rule, ghosts/poltergeists/etc, the lights of Marfa, alien kidnappings, Roswell/Area 51, and on and on and on. They want so badly to believe and be in on extraordinary stuff (a form of living vicariously by tying yourself to something that is over-the-top outrageous) that it is like arguing religion. Everybody gets to say their piece and express their feelings, and it never really produces anything. (Very much like what often goes on in any large bureacracy)." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #88 September 25, 2006 QuoteThey only write and talk about the theorys that are easy to prove invalid. I agree there a lots of crazy ideas. But they don't address the really hard ones. and going... and going... and going... and going... and going... [breath] and going... and going... and going... and going... Someone asks, "But what about the thermite at the WTC?" and someone replies, "Thermite is made when you combine aluminum, iron oxide (rust), and heat. All would be present after a plane crashed into a building." Someone asks, "But what about the raging office fires in other buildings that didn't bring them down?" and someone replies, "The world trade center was supported by a 'concentric tube' design which could not withstand both the damage to the outer and inner tubes sustained during the impact of the plane, and the damage to the linking trusses sustained during the ensuing fire." Someone asks, "But what about the plumes of debris?" and someone replies, "Pressure build up from collpasing floors can make it's way down the central columns of the building and when it gets to be too much, it will blow out through the weakest points it can find: random windows scattered amongst floors beneath the collapse." Someone asks, "But what about the audio tape that records a loud noise 9 seconds after the plane hits from an adjacent building?" and someone replies, "Do the math, the debris ejected from the impact would take approximately 9 seconds to fall to the streets below. It would make just such a noise when it hit the ground." Someone asks, "But what about the other plane crashes I've seen where debris is obvious. They don't look anything like what was at the pentagon or in Pennsylvania?" and someone replies, "Other plane crashes you've seen involved the pilot doing everything he/she could to keep the plane and the surrounding area as in tact as possible. These crashes involved the pilot doing everything in his power to cause as much damage as possible. They shouldn't look anything alike." Someone asks, "But what about the distance into the pentagon the plane traveled while also disintigrating?" and someone replies, "You don't have to stop an object's forward movement to destroy it. Shrapnel can, and will, continue to impart damage to a target after an initial impact has rendered the 'projectile' unrecognizable. It's how hollow point bullets work." And then six months goes by. And then someone asks, "But what about the thermite at the WTC?" At first, people had legitimate questions about things they did not understand, and under no real obligationto do so, engineers, architects, and scientific publications stepped forward to explain to the general public the hows and whys of it all. The vast majority of people with the questions accepted what was said, maybe discussed it a bit to clarify things, and then got on with their lives. Still there remain a few who, as though it were some kind of exercise in nobility, continue to ask the same questions again and again. But neither joining a discussion late, waiting a while and starting the exact same discussion over, nor amnestically demanding rebuttals do anything to shift the burden of proof to those of us who have accepted what happened five years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
no7rosman 0 #89 September 26, 2006 You are pretty frustrated about this....Calm down!!! I won't keep aruging as I didn't know people here don't work. You proved my point exactly however...All of the things mentioned above are things that absolutely cannot be tested or proven either way. Someone mentioned JFK...If you believe that the official story released was true...You are a minority in America today...why... because of people continuing to call bullshit. Its not because they are "wearing us down", they have evidence. Last post for me. If you want to keep arguing PM me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
