How about " I am an atheist, and proud of it?

[Royd 0]

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Doesnt the lord almighty forgive everyone? If thats true then I'm in the clear!

Life of Sin ahoy!

I don't really like hammering people with scripture, but I can.
If everyone were to be forgiven, Jesus Christ wasted his sacrifice. You must believe that He died for the sins of the whole world, and you personally.
If you were thrown overboard in a huge storm, and refused to grab a lifeline that was thrown to you because you didn't want any help from anyone, then you deserve your fate.

[jakee 1,260]

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If everyone were to be forgiven, Jesus Christ wasted his sacrifice. You must believe that He died for the sins of the whole world, and you personally.

But you just said he didn't die for the sins of the whole world. If he had there would be no terms, conditions or provisos. Dying for everyone who believes is not dying for everyone.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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1) why are you religious? Was it becuase parents made you or did you find it of your own free will.

first off, let's discuss the word religious, religiously, in a religious manner. Getting up every morning at 6am whether you need to or not is religious. Being superstitious in any manner is religious. You know, don't walk under a ladder, don't let a black cat cross your path, etc.
Religion, in itself, regardless of it's type, is man's effort to make himself acceptable in the eyes of God.
Setting something else up as the end all, is also religion, i.e. science, self, epicurianism.

As for my religious background, I was raised Roman Catholic. Talking the 60's.
I couldn't have told you one minute after confirmation, what I had done, or what it was supposed to mean. Probably ADD.
Sometime in the early 80's- typical hippie lifestyle- I picked up a Bible. I couldn't tell you where I got it. I was probably stoned. Who knows.
The words spoke to my spirit, if you know what I mean. Truth is truth.
I spent quite a bit of time in church studying the Bible.
You go to the dz to learn about skydiving, and church to learn about the Bible. Some people spend their lives as dedicated teachers of the Bible. It's the same with any other philosophy or movment.
The answer to the last two questions is wrapped up in the words " Truth is truth." Once it speaks to you, you know it.
Are you open to any exploration? Read the Book of Proverbs, written by King Solomon. Considered to be the wisest man who ever lived. If you can't glean truth from there, I don't know what to say.

Also, I'd rather believe in God on this side and be wrong, than not believe, and be wrong. Now that's hedging your bet!

[micro 0]

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What's up my "Catholic" brotha from anotha mutha!

lol! hey paj! how's it going dude!

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[micro 0]

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That number is mind boggling.

It is, isn't it... and that's from a couple of years ago... I don't have a the most recent number...

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[Royd 0]

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But you just said he didn't die for the sins of the whole world. If he had there would be no terms, conditions or provisos. Dying for everyone who believes is not dying for everyone.

I am going to use an analogy, which is my own.
I used it with teenagers alot. I taught Sunday school for about 5yrs.

Someone walks up to you on the street, and hands you a key. They tell you that it is a key to a saftey deposit box which contains a fortune.
One of three things happens.
You think the person is bsing you, and you refuse the key straight out.
You take the key, put it in your pocket, go home, forget about it, the wife does the laundry, and the key is lost.
Or, you take the key, go to the bank, open the box, and find out that it was true.
Christ is offered to all of mankind. Those who take the key, and open the box, are the ones who are rewarded. The rest have to pay the penalty for rejecting the treasure, which is eternal separation from God and Christ.

[derivative 0]

But what reason would you have to believe that someone would just walk up to you and hand you the key to a fortune? What if you took the key, went to the bank, and found an empty box?

...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible.
- T.E. Lawrence

[derivative 0]

Sure, but if they don't produce those drugs with a viable business model, then it's rather a futile point, though. I agree that the probable aim is to provide releif to suffering, but you can't run business on good intentions.

...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible.
- T.E. Lawrence

[Royd 0]

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But what reason would you have to believe that someone would just walk up to you and hand you the key to a fortune? What if you took the key, went to the bank, and found an empty box?

It is an anology. The person who handed you the key knew that the box was full of money, or whatever the treasure was. Concerning Christ, it is the gift of eternal life. It is free for the taking.

[derivative 0]

Yes, it is an analogy, but as an instructive tool, it is flawed - you've set it up so that you get you get your desired outcome. It assumes that the person giving you the key is well intentioned.

You could just as easily turn it the other way, with the lesson being, something like, don't take candy from strangers.

...the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible.
- T.E. Lawrence

[jakee 1,260]

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Someone walks up to you on the street, and hands you a key. They tell you that it is a key to a saftey deposit box which contains a fortune.
One of three things happens.
You think the person is bsing you, and you refuse the key straight out.
You take the key, put it in your pocket, go home, forget about it, the wife does the laundry, and the key is lost.
Or, you take the key, go to the bank, open the box, and find out that it was true.
Christ is offered to all of mankind. Those who take the key, and open the box, are the ones who are rewarded. The rest have to pay the penalty for rejecting the treasure, which is eternal separation from God and Christ.

Well I'm sure it worked fine for the kids but as a real world analogy its a bit too simplistic.

Explain to me what happens to those who've never heard the christian message, and what special consideration is given to those who've been taught all their lives to follow a different route to salvation.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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Explain to me what happens to those who've never heard the christian message, and what special consideration is given to those who've been taught all their lives to follow a different route to salvation

I am not a biblical scholar, and do not have all of the answers.
I could think of many anologies, probably most of them too simplistic,,but I'll give it a shot. Going on a road trip, a person cannot possibly know that there are no detours, potholes, rockslides, or breakdowns. If he were waiting for that to happen, he would be sitting forever in the driveway, hoping that the road was clear. Middleschoolish, I know.

We'd like to tell the Muslims, but they want to cut our heads off.

[billvon 2,435]

>Going on a road trip, a person cannot possibly know that there are
>no detours, potholes, rockslides, or breakdowns. If he were waiting for that
>to happen, he would be sitting forever in the driveway, hoping that the
>road was clear.

Decent analogy. I would also add that there's more than one way to get to your destination on that road trip. Even if it's not the way that MapQuest tells you to go.

[Lindsey 0]

Decent analogy. I would also add that there's more than one way to get to your destination on that road trip. Even if it's not the way that MapQuest tells you to go.

Ain't that true. This weekend, we drove to Whitewright on the "other" road. But we learned, before we left, that the MapQuest path was better, so our return trip was via the correct route.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Royd 0]

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Decent analogy. I would also add that there's more than one way to get to your destination on that road trip. Even if it's not the way that MapQuest tells you to go.

The point that I'm trying to make here is[ and I really don't like to continue using tags] that the unbelievers want all of the questions answered before they ever take the first step.
Thankfully, Thomas Edison didn't have that attitude when he decided to invent the light bulb.
Also, in my life experience, the journey has been as much fun as getting to the destination.
Are we there, yet, are we there , yet?

[billvon 2,435]

> Also, in my life experience, the journey has been as much fun as getting to the destination.

Definitely. Just keep in mind that people who take different roads have fun too - and can end up in the same destination.

[Mockingbird 0]

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umm, how many different major Christian Protestant sects do we have? They view their translations differently enough that they have their own church to celebrate it!

To celebrate what-- their own translation of the bible?

As for the number of different protestant sects, I'm not bothered by it that much, except for when the differences are in essential doctrine, such as the nature of Christ and the means of reconciliation with God. But most of them are due to differences in non-essentials. I'm not sure what your point is, tho'.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[kelpdiver 2]

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As for the number of different protestant sects, I'm not bothered by it that much, except for when the differences are in essential doctrine, such as the nature of Christ and the means of reconciliation with God. But most of them are due to differences in non-essentials. I'm not sure what your point is, tho'.

My point is that you took a single passage from the Bibles as proof they all translate the same. Yet if they all are similar and the Bible is the basis of the given church, why are there so many different ones?

History says that they differ from each other enough to kill over the differences.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Yes, it is an analogy, but as an instructive tool, it is flawed - you've set it up so that you get you get your desired outcome. It assumes that the person giving you the key is well intentioned.

You could just as easily turn it the other way, with the lesson being, something like, don't take candy from strangers.

Tourists in foreign countries that take the key find themselves in jail for decades for drug trafficking.

[Mockingbird 0]

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My point is that you took a single passage from the Bibles as proof they all translate the same. Yet if they all are similar and the Bible is the basis of the given church, why are there so many different ones?

History says that they differ from each other enough to kill over the differences.

Perhaps it's because mortals are involved. Human beings always complicate things. The more complex they can make something, the better it looks. Maybe they think complexity makes them look smarter. People have their pet doctrines and traditions. Unless Christ is flagrantly dishonored in some way through this, I think it can be a good thing-- different denominations focusing on different facets of truth.

But when did Christians kill each other over a translation?! This is news to me.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[micro 0]

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My point is that you took a single passage from the Bibles as proof they all translate the same. Yet if they all are similar and the Bible is the basis of the given church, why are there so many different ones?

History says that they differ from each other enough to kill over the differences.

Perhaps it's because mortals are involved. Human beings always complicate things. The more complex they can make something, the better it looks. Maybe they think complexity makes them look smarter. People have their pet doctrines and traditions. Unless Christ is flagrantly dishonored in some way through this, I think it can be a good thing-- different denominations focusing on different facets of truth.

But when did Christians kill each other over a translation?! This is news to me.

I don't know if it's really over differing translations, but in various parts of the world, Protestants and Catholics are renowned for their hatred of each other, that has gone as far as murder... look at Ireland for just one example.

"May they be one, Father, as You and I are One."

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[Sockpuppet 0]

In order to do research for this thread I went to watch the DaVinciCode last night. It was rubbish...thats all I have to say.

------
Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh.

[pajarito 0]

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Decent analogy. I would also add that there's more than one way to get to your destination on that road trip. Even if it's not the way that MapQuest tells you to go.

Most all other religions are "work based" in that you must do something or a number of things to reach the destination you're referring to. Jesus said he is the only way and that no one reaches that destination except through him. Now, that could be totally wrong but they all cannot be correct. Jesus drew the line in the sand. In light of what Jesus said and did, it is totally illogical to say that all roads lead to the same place.

[Royd 0]

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In order to do research for this thread I went to watch the DaVinciCode last night. It was rubbish...thats all I have to say

Hollywood has been trying to defame the person of Christ for years. I don't need to go into details. You know the movies.
It is amazing that noone wanted to financially back Mel Gibson on his depiction of the crucifiction of Christ, yet, when someone wants to depict him as a whoremonger, Hollywood's all over it. There's something wrong with that picture.

[Lindsey 0]

Jesus drew the line in the sand. In light of what Jesus said and did, it is totally illogical to say that all roads lead to the same place.

unless none of the religions have it right....

:)
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail