Another religion thread.

[pajarito 0]

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Places only show that the authors lived in the same region (very broadly speaking) and in a similar historical era (this does not mean at the same time). Come on, a person would have to be a complete retard to write a near contemporary book of miraculous events, set it in fictional places and expect it to be believed.

Dan Browns books are set in real cities too, are they historical?

That's just one aspect. That in and of itself does not prove its claims are true. The genealogies, verifiable locations, and testimonies just lead one to believe that it is real and truthful rather than a made up myth as some claim. The intent was not simply to tell an elaborate tale.

[niolosoiale 0]

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>But that's not God's standard.

I understand that that's your belief; I just don't share it. Gandhi was a better person than Timothy McVeigh no matter how you slice it, and no matter what sort of inner beliefs they possessed. I don't buy that McVeigh scores higher on the celestial scorecard because he accepted Jesus as his personal savior in the last moments of his life. It's great that he can be forgiven - but to forgive him and not Gandhi is preposterous.

I'll go ahead and throw in the typical response about how man isn't judged by works alone, but my the content of his heart/soul blah blah, that is where sin resides and works can't get rid of that, only the forgiveness offered by god through the sacrifice of his perfect son.

Saved the christians here some time and effort.

[hairyjuan 0]

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Places only show that the authors lived in the same region (very broadly speaking) and in a similar historical era (this does not mean at the same time). Come on, a person would have to be a complete retard to write a near contemporary book of miraculous events, set it in fictional places and expect it to be believed.

Dan Browns books are set in real cities too, are they historical?

that is exactly what the bible is, fiction! case in point, hebrew slaves built the pyramids, 'god' visited punishment on the egyptians for enslaving the jews, etc. If these were historical events taking place in egypt, the egyptians, meticulous recordkeepers themselves, would have made mention of these events themselves. THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY RECORDED EVIDENCE, consequentially the 'bible' is BULLSHIT.

That's just one aspect. That in and of itself does not prove its claims are true. The genealogies, verifiable locations, and testimonies just lead one to believe that it is real and truthful rather than a made up myth as some claim. The intent was not simply to tell an elaborate tale.

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[pajarito 0]

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case in point, hebrew slaves built the pyramids, 'god' visited punishment on the egyptians for enslaving the jews, etc. If these were historical events taking place in egypt, the egyptians, meticulous recordkeepers themselves, would have made mention of these events themselves. THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY RECORDED EVIDENCE, consequentially the 'bible' is BULLSHIT.

I saw a TV program the other day concerning this. It said that the Egyptians probably would not have recorded something like that. They only painted/recorded stuff that would contribute and be useful to the next life. Happy things, victories, etc. A huge defeat such as that would have been bad ju-ju.

[Nightingale 0]

But, they would've recorded the slave thing. Most pharoahs and other important people were buried with slaves, so slaves were very important in the afterlife.

[pajarito 0]

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But, they would've recorded the slave thing. Most pharoahs and other important people were buried with slaves, so slaves were very important in the afterlife.

Then I have no idea. Just thought it interesting.

[hairyjuan 0]

here is what i 'believe' to be true about your television. as far as your remark about egyptian history, it is as much bullshit as the 'boble' why don'tyou read what i'm offering to all? is itbecause you are afraid to look at anything other than the cross, as commanded by your mythical 'boble'?

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[pajarito 0]

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But, they would've recorded the slave thing. Most pharoahs and other important people were buried with slaves, so slaves were very important in the afterlife.

This is an interesting theory:

Searching for Moses
by David Down

Summary
By the traditional chronology of Egyptian history the 18th dynasty ruled from about 1550 to 1320 BC. According to Bible chronology the Exodus occurred about 1446 BC. But there is no evidence from 18th dynasty Egyptian records of a major disaster such as would have resulted from the 10 devastating plagues that fell on Egypt, or of the destruction of the Egyptian army during this period. Nor is there archaeological evidence for an invasion of Palestine under Joshua during this period.

The solution to this problem is a recognition that the chronology of Egypt needs to be reduced by centuries, bringing the 12th dynasty down to the time of Moses and the Exodus. When this is done there is found abundant evidence for the presence of large numbers of Semitic slaves at the time of Moses, the devastation of Egypt and the sudden departure of these slaves.

A reduction of the chronology of Egypt would also be reflected in the interpretation of the archaeological ages in Israel. There is little evidence for an invasion of Palestine at the end of the Late Bronze Period. But at the end of the Early Bronze Period there is evidence of Jericho’s fallen walls and the arrival of a new people with a new culture who should be identified as the invading Israelites under Joshua.

The challenge to the Bible
The 18 December 1995 edition of Time magazine had on the front cover a picture of Moses holding a slab of stone, on which are the Ten Commandments, with the question splashed across the centre of the page asking, ‘IS THE BIBLE FACT OR FICTION’.

The article claims that there are

‘parts of the Old Testament where the evidence is contradictory or still absent, including slavery in Egypt, the existence of Moses, the Exodus and Joshua’s military conquest of the Holy Land … . Kathleen Kenyon, who excavated at Jericho for six years, found no evidence of destruction at that time’ (p. 54).

In fact, she claims that Jericho was uninhabited in 1400 BC, the Biblical date for the Exodus.

‘When the material is analysed in the light of our present knowledge, it becomes clear that there is a complete gap both on the tell and in the tombs between c.1580 BC and c.1400 BC.’1

The expression ‘at that time’ is extremely significant. The fact is that there is plenty of evidence for slavery in Egypt, the existence of Moses, the Exodus and Joshua’s military conquest of the Holy Land. At Jericho, Professor Garstang uncovered toppled walls and a thick layer of ash all over the tell which denoted a fire that had been deliberately lit.

‘The outer wall suffered most, its remains falling down the slope … . Traces of intense fire are plain to see, including reddened masses of brick, cracked stones, charred timbers and ashes. Houses alongside the wall were found burnt to the ground, their roofs fallen upon the domestic pottery within.’2

But it was not at the time archaeologists had allocated to the event.

‘It had been believed in the earlier excavations that the defensive walls of the Late Bronze Age town had been discovered, and that they had been destroyed by earthquake and fire. It became clear in the course of the recent excavations that these walls had been mistakenly identified. They actually belonged to the Early Bronze Age.’3

From the information revealed in 1 Kings 6:1, the date of the Exodus can be calculated. It says, ‘And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel had come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign over Israel, in the month Ziv, which is the second month, that he began to build the house of the LORD’.

Most historians agree that Solomon ascended the throne about 970 BC.4 His 4th year would be 966 BC, and 480 years before that would be about 1446 BC. According to the traditional dates accepted by most archaeologists, that would be during the rule of the 18th dynasty of Egypt.

A proposed revision of Egyptian chronology
It is true that there is no evidence for Moses, the ten plagues that fell upon Egypt or the exodus ‘at that time’. But there are a number of scholars who claim that a gross error in chronology has been made in calculating the dates of Egyptian history and that they should be reduced by centuries.5 Such a re-dating could bring the 12th dynasty down to the time of Moses, and there is plenty of circumstantial evidence in that dynasty to support the Biblical records.

One of the last kings of the 12th dynasty was Sesostris III. His statues depict him as a cruel tyrant quite capable of inflicting harsh slavery on his subjects. His son was Amenemhet III, who seems to have been an equally disagreeable character. He probably ruled for 46 years, and Moses would have been born near the beginning of his reign.

Amenemhet III may have had one son, known as Amenemhet IV, who was an enigmatic character who may have followed his father or may have been a co-regent with him. If the latter, Amenemhet IV could well have been Moses. Amenemhet IV mysteriously disappeared off the scene before the death of Amenemhet III.

Amenemhet III had a daughter whose name was Sobekneferu. It is known that she had no children.6 If she was the daughter of Pharaoh who came down to the river to bathe, it is easy to understand why she was there. It was not because she had no bathroom in her palace. She would have been down there taking a ceremonial ablution and praying to the river god Hapi, who was also the god of fertility. Having no children she would have needed such a god, and when she found the beautiful baby Moses there she would have considered it an answer to her prayers (Exodus 2:5—6).

But when Moses came of age he identified himself with the people of Israel and was obliged to flee from Egypt. This left a vacuum on the throne, and when Amenemhet III died there was no male successor. Sobekneferu ascended the throne and ruled for 8 years as a Pharaoh, but when she died the dynasty died and was succeeded by the 13th dynasty.

The Israelite slaves
For the past 15 years I have been promoting a revised chronology for Egypt.7 This results in identifying the Semitic slaves, who were employed in building the pyramids of the 12th dynasty at Kahun in the Faiyyum, as the Israelite slaves referred to in the book of Exodus. Fifteen years ago I was regarded as being out of touch with archaeological reality, but time has changed all that.

Of course, Dr Immanuel Velikovsky proposed the same revision before I did,8 and so did Dr Donoville Courville,9 but they were written off as irrelevant because they were not archaeologists. Since then, recognized archaeological scholars have joined the chorus of revision.

In 1991, Peter James published his book Centuries of Darkness, claiming that the chronology of Egypt should be reduced by 250 years.10 James was a reputable scholar, and his book carried a preface by Professor Colin Renfrew of Cambridge University recognizing that ‘a chronological revolution is on its way’ (p. XVI), claiming that ‘history will have to be rewritten’ (p. XIV). In 1995, David Rohl published A Test of Time, in which he claimed that the chronology of Egypt should be reduced by 350 years.11 All this meant that the end of the 12th dynasty of Egypt would be dated to the 15th century BC, which would be about the time of the Biblical Exodus, and the slaves known to have lived at Kahun and laboured on the building of the 12th dynasty pyramids were the Israelite slaves.

Professor Bryant Wood, from the Associates for Biblical Research, has also concluded that the Semitic slaves who lived at Kahun were indeed the Israelites.12 He reaches his conclusion from a different perspective but the end result is the same. He concludes that the period of 430 years13,14 mentioned in Exodus 12:40 was not the total period of time from Abraham to the Exodus, as seemingly implied in Galatians 3:17, but was the actual period of the Israelite presence in Egypt. This assumption would likewise place the Israelite slaves in the 12th dynasty

The evidence very well fits the Biblical record which says,

‘There arose a new king over Egypt who did not know Joseph. And he said to his people, "Look, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we; come, let us deal wisely with them, lest they multiply and it happen in the event of war, that they join our enemies and fight against us, and so go up out of the land." Therefore they set taskmasters over them to afflict them with their burdens’ (Exodus 1:8—11).

Sir Flinders Petrie excavated the city of Kahun in the Faiyyum and Dr Rosalie David wrote a book about his excavations in which she said,

‘It is apparent that the Asiatics were present in the town in some numbers, and this may have reflected the situation elsewhere in Egypt … . Their exact homeland in Syria or Palestine cannot be determined … . The reason for their presence in Egypt remains unclear.’15

Neither Rosalie David nor Flinders Petrie could identify these Semitic slaves with the Israelites because they held to the traditional chronology which placed the Biblical event centuries later than the 12th dynasty.

There was another interesting discovery Petrie made. ‘Larger wooden boxes, probably used originally to store clothing and other possessions, were discovered underneath the floors of many houses at Kahun. They contained babies, sometimes buried two or three to a box, and aged only a few months at death.’16

There is a Biblical explanation for this. Pharaoh had ordered the Hebrew midwives, ‘When you do the duties of a midwife for the Hebrew women, and see them on the birth stools, if it is a son, then you shall kill him’ (Exodus1:16). The midwives ignored this command so ‘Pharaoh commanded all his people saying, "Every son who is born you shall cast into the river … " ’ (verse 22). Many grieving mothers must have had their babies snatched from their arms and killed. They apparently buried them in boxes beneath the floors of their houses.17

Another striking feature of Petrie’s discoveries was the fact that these slaves suddenly disappeared off the scene. Rosalie David wrote:

‘It is apparent that the completion of the king’s pyramid was not the reason why Kahun’s inhabitants eventually deserted the town, abandoning their tools and other possessions in the shops and houses.’18

‘There are different opinions of how this first period of occupation at Kahun drew to a close ... . The quantity, range and type of articles of everyday use which were left behind in the houses may indeed suggest that the departure was sudden and unpremeditated.’19

The departure was sudden and unpremeditated! Nothing could better fit the Biblical record. ‘And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years–on that very same day–it came to pass that all the armies of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt’ (Exodus 12:41).

The ten plagues on Egypt
Pharaoh had yielded to Moses’ demands to allow his slaves to leave because of the ten devastating plagues that fell on Egypt (Exodus 7—12). The waters of the sacred River Nile were turned to blood, herds and flocks were smitten with pestilence, lightning set combustible material on fire, hail flattened the crops and struck the fruit trees, and locusts blanketed the country and consumed what might have been left of plant life. The economy of Egypt would have been so shattered that there should be some record of such a national catastrophe–and there is.

In the Leiden Museum in Holland is a papyrus written in a later period, but most scholars recognize it as being a copy of a papyrus from an earlier dynasty. It could have been from the 13th dynasty describing the conditions that prevailed after the plagues had struck. It reads,

‘Nay, but the heart is violent. Plague stalks through the land and blood is everywhere … . Nay, but the river is blood. Does a man drink from it? As a human he rejects it. He thirsts for water … . Nay, but gates, columns and walls are consumed with fire … . Nay but men are few. He that lays his brother in the ground is everywhere … . Nay but the son of the high-born man is no longer to be recognized … . The stranger people from outside are come into Egypt … . Nay, but corn has perished everywhere. People are stripped of clothing, perfume and oil. Everyone says "there is no more". The storehouse is bare … . It has come to this. The king has been taken away by poor men.’20

The Pharaoh of the Exodus
There are records of slavery during the reigns of the last rulers of the 12th Dynasty–Sesostris III, Amenemhet III and Sobekneferu (some include an obscure figure known as Amenemhet IV before Sobekneferu). With the death of Sobekneferu the 12th dynasty came to an end as she had no children born to her. Moses, the adopted heir, had fled to Midian.

A period of instability followed the demise of the 12th dynasty. Fourteen kings followed each other in rapid succession, the earlier ones probably ruling in the Delta before the 12th dynasty ended. Kings of the 13th dynasty had already started to rule in the north-east delta and, when the 12th dynasty came to an end, they filled the vacuum and took over as the 13th dynasty. (The idea of dynasties was not an Egyptian idea at the time. It was a later invention of Manetho, the Egyptian priest of the 3rd century BC who left a record of the history of Egypt and divided the kings into dynasties.)

The elevation to rulership over all Egypt by these kings resulted in fierce contention among themselves, resulting in a rapid succession of rulers and more or less anarchy in the country. This only settled down when Neferhotep I took the throne and restored some stability, ruling for 11 years.

I identify Khasekemre-Neferhotep I as the pharaoh from whom Moses demanded Israel’s release. I do so because Petrie found scarabs21 of former kings at Kahun. But the latest scarab he found there was of Neferhotep, who was apparently the pharaoh ruling when the Israelite slaves suddenly left Kahun and fled from Egypt in the Exodus. According to Manetho, he was the last king to rule before the Hyksos occupied Egypt ‘without a battle’. Without a battle? Where was the Egyptian army? It was at the bottom of the Red Sea (Exodus 14:28). Khasekemre-Neferhotep I was probably the pharaoh of the Exodus. His mummy has never been found.

In his lecture, Professor Wood associated the name Rameses mentioned in Genesis 47:11 and Exodus 1:11, 12:37 with the Egyptian word ‘RW3TY’, meaning ‘Door of two roads’. He connects it with Stratum d/222 of the new population centre at Tell el-Daba (Avaris, the Capital of the Hyksos), a site which is being excavated by the Austrian archaeologist Manfred Bietak. According to Bietak this stratum has definite evidence for a Canaanite element. It is Stratum d/2 which Wood connects with the Israelites in Egypt.12

Those who identify Rameses II as the pharaoh of the Exodus cite these verses which include the name ‘Rameses’ as evidence to support their identification. But if Rameses was the Pharaoh of the Exodus, his body should be at the bottom of the Red Sea, not in the Cairo Museum where it is today. Wood’s argument dispels the necessity of linking the name Rameses with the Biblical references.

Conclusion
There is plenty evidence for Israelite slavery in Egypt–the sudden disappearance of these slaves, the devastation of Egypt by the ten plagues, the destruction of the Egyptian army–if we look for it at the right time, and time is a vital element in the interpretation of ancient history.

According to the Biblical records, the Exodus occurred 480 years before Solomon laid the foundations of his temple at Jerusalem (1 Kings 6:1). This would place the Exodus about 1446 BC. God’s covenant with Abraham was 430 years earlier (Exodus 12:40, Galatians 3:16, 17) about 1850 BC. From the ages of his predecessors back to Noah, given in Genesis 12 and 13, it can be calculated that the great universal flood occurred 427 years earlier, about 2302 BC. But according to most authorities on Egyptian chronology the pyramids were built about 1550 BC, and the first dynasty of Egypt ruled about 3100 BC.23

Thus, there is a conflict between Egyptian chronology as generally interpreted and the Biblical records. Neither the first dynasty of Egypt nor the pyramids could have existed before the flood. If the Bible is historically reliable, as I believe it is, then there must be a mistake in the usual interpretation of Egyptian chronology which needs to be reduced by centuries.

The issue is clear. An acceptance of the present chronological interpretation of Egyptian history, and a rejection of the Biblical chronology, opens the door to skepticism of the rest of the early Biblical records, including the record of the Creation of the world in six days. But if Egyptian chronology can be shown to be flawed, a major obstacle to the acceptance of the Bible records is removed, and the Genesis history stands justified.

[hairyjuan 0]

your repeated diatribes about the bible prove irrefutetably that you know nothing about the origins of religion, especially the one that you say you believe in. it has been repeated often, faith is believing in something with no proof. send me your e-mail address and i will gladly send you 'who is this-a critical study ofthe christos-messiah tradition'. also, Acharya S WARMLY AND OPENLY welcomes you to her website, www.truthbeknown.com. there you can learn the truth about religion, especially Xtianity. failure to take meupon my offer proves my point-christians are mind-controlled slaves to fear of burning in hell for not believing in the mythical SUN(jesus)

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[pajarito 0]

Tell you what, dude. I wouldn't wish hell on anyone including you but that is exactly where you are heading. I sincerely hope you come to reason before you die. Eternity is a very long time to be wrong.

[br0k3n 0]

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Original sin is known in two senses: the Fall of Adam as the "original" sin and the hereditary fallen nature and moral corruption that is passed down from Adam to his descendents. It is called "original" in that Adam, the first man, is the one who sinned and thus caused sin to enter the world

The problem I have with this, is that we know Adam and Eve never existed, and I’m sure that you agree, so therefore the “original sin” never happened, and therefore Jesus came to earth, was tortured and died for, well nothing. to any sane person this is absurd???

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What do you require? One of his sandals? A toothbrush maybe?

Well yes, something at least… using my previous statement about Julius Caesar as an example, unlike the mythical Jesus Christ, we know what Caesar looked like and we have a complete history of his life. We have words written by Caesar himself and words written by both his friends and his enemies. Artefacts confirm his life and death, as do his successors. Caesar was an eyewitness to many of the events he describes in his commentaries. He wrote not for posterity but to have an immediate impact on the power players in Rome as he schemed to advance his own career.

Now this can be said about most of the prominent figures though out our history, but why is this not the case for Jesus??

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What we currently have is documentation from eye-witnesses who died martyrs deaths for what they knew was true. There’s little doubt as to the historical nature of the Bible and its detailed accuracy. It does not appear to be a fictitious story. Here is a list of ancient cities verified by the Bible. I doubt Jesus would have carved “Jesus was here” into the wall of a place that he lived or stayed

Ermmm NO… what you have is a book that by all definition is “Hearsay” & “Anecdotal”, and written many years after the actual events it details, and none it actually written by Jesus himself!!!!! The four Gospels of the New Testament -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. These Gospels, and these alone, tell the story of his life. Now we know absolutely nothing of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, apart from what is said of them in the Gospels. Moreover, the Gospels themselves do not claim to have been written by these men. They are not called "The Gospel of Matthew," or "The Gospel of Mark," but "The Gospel According to Matthew," "The Gospel According to Mark," "The Gospel According to Luke," and "The Gospel According to John." No human being knows who wrote a single line in one of these Gospel.

Christ is supposed to have been a Jew, and his disciples are said to have been Jewish fishermen. His language, and the language of his followers must, therefore, have been Aramaic -- the popular language of Palestine in that age. But the Gospels are written in Greek -- every one of them. Nor were they translated from some other language. Every leading Christian scholar since Erasmus, four hundred years ago, has maintained that they were originally written in Greek. This proves that they were not written by Christ's disciples, or by any of the early Christians

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but it appears that the Bible is accurate in what it states compared with what we have found so far.

Care to elaborate on this??

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A more important question to ask would be “Where will you be going when you die?”

Not really, I will be going to the same place as you and every other person on this planet when I die, and guess what its not heaven…. Unlike you Paj I can except this and don’t need an ancient myth to give me false hope of a glorious afterlife…

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[Mockingbird 0]

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I think the measure of a good person is how close he can come to the sort of life that Christ led - no matter who he prays to, or how he prays, or what direction he faces when he does so.

And what do you think a person earns by living this kind of life-- a good reputation? the satisfaction of having "made the world a better place"? eternal life?

[Mockingbird 0]

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failure to take meupon my offer proves my point-christians are mind-controlled slaves to fear of burning in hell for not believing in the mythical SUN(jesus)

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it has been repeated often, faith is believing in something with no proof.

You almost got it right this time.

[billvon 2,470]

>And what do you think a person earns by living this kind of life-- a good
>reputation? the satisfaction of having "made the world a better place"?
>eternal life?

I think if you need a prize to convince you to live a good life, it's not worth it. Living a good life is its own reward.

And if there is a place I go after I die, I'd rather go to the place that has people like Gandhi, Einstein and Sakharov in it anyway. I've got no real desire to go to Timothy McVeigh's place.

[br0k3n 0]

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I've got no real desire to go to Timothy McVeigh's place.

or Rev. Paul Jennings Hill's place..

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Mockingbird 0]

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Places only show that the authors lived in the same region (very broadly speaking) and in a similar historical era (this does not mean at the same time). Come on, a person would have to be a complete retard to write a near contemporary book of miraculous events, set it in fictional places and expect it to be believed.

Dan Browns books are set in real cities too, are they historical?

That's just one aspect. That in and of itself does not prove its claims are true. The genealogies, verifiable locations, and testimonies just lead one to believe that it is real and truthful rather than a made up myth as some claim. The intent was not simply to tell an elaborate tale.

Right, Paj. The fact that so many of the people, places, and events are verifiable should lead the objective-minded reader to the conclusion that it isn't fiction. I'd challenge anyone believes the bible is just myth to read the book of "Acts" and then report back with evidence of myth they find.

[br0k3n 0]

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Right, Paj. The fact that so many of the people, places, and events are verifiable should lead the objective-minded reader to the conclusion that it isn't fiction. I'd challenge anyone believes the bible is just myth to read the book of "Acts" and then report back with evidence of myth they find.

MB, are you actually serious?????

Let me ask you this, how many fictional books/stories have been written about characters in the Vietnam War… now I’m sure if you read these you will find that a lot of places, events and sometimes people verifiable, but still at the end of the day the bulk of the story is fiction….

You still are unable to deny the fact there is absolutely no physical evidence to support the story of Jesus. Also you are unable to deny that No human being knows who wrote a single line of the story of Jesus as written in the "The Gospel According to Matthew," "The Gospel According to Mark," "The Gospel According to Luke," and "The Gospel According to John."

You still are unable to deny that Christ is supposed to have been a Jew, and his disciples are said to have been Jewish fishermen. His language, and the language of his followers must, therefore, have been Aramaic -- the popular language of Palestine in that age. But the Gospels are written in Greek…This proves that they were not written by Christ's disciples, or by any of the early Christians

I'd challenge anyone believes the bible is not myth to read the book and then report back with evidence that it is not a myth.

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[Mockingbird 0]

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>And what do you think a person earns by living this kind of life-- a good
>reputation? the satisfaction of having "made the world a better place"?
>eternal life?

I think if you need a prize to convince you to live a good life, it's not worth it. Living a good life is its own reward.

I'm not sure I get it... Your answer to my question (which was, What do you think a person earns by living the kind of life that Christ lived?) is that "living a good life is its own reward." What exactly does that mean... "its own reward"?

Also, what aspects of Christ's life do you think were worthy of emulating?

[Mockingbird 0]

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You still are unable to deny the fact there is absolutely no physical evidence to support the story of Jesus. Also you are unable to deny that No human being knows who wrote a single line of the story of Jesus as written in the "The Gospel According to Matthew," "The Gospel According to Mark," "The Gospel According to Luke," and "The Gospel According to John."

Where do you get your information?

[br0k3n 0]

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You still are unable to deny the fact there is absolutely no physical evidence to support the story of Jesus. Also you are unable to deny that No human being knows who wrote a single line of the story of Jesus as written in the "The Gospel According to Matthew," "The Gospel According to Mark," "The Gospel According to Luke," and "The Gospel According to John."

Where do you get your information?

Are you saying that this information is incorrect?

First of all we all know that there is no physical evidence, otherwise I would be globally known, and no-doubt used a smoking gun by the Christians.

So can we agree that there is no physical evidence?

Do you know who wrote the Gospels? Considering the text being in Greek, not Aramaic, which rules out Matthew. Mark, Luke and John????

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[Mockingbird 0]

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You still are unable to deny the fact there is absolutely no physical evidence to support the story of Jesus. Also you are unable to deny that No human being knows who wrote a single line of the story of Jesus as written in the "The Gospel According to Matthew," "The Gospel According to Mark," "The Gospel According to Luke," and "The Gospel According to John."

Where do you get your information?

Are you saying that this information is incorrect?

Must we play games, B?

Where did you get this information? (is that worded better?)

[br0k3n 0]

edited previous post....

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[Mockingbird 0]

Thanks for the heads up on the edited post.

I'll wait to respond until you inform me of your source(s) for the language and authorship issues, as well as the claim of "no evidence" that Jesus Christ existed.

[br0k3n 0]

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I'll wait to respond until you inform me of your source(s) for the language and authorship issues, as well as the claim of "no evidence" that Jesus Christ existed.

MB, spend 5mins searching the web for the origins of the 4 gospels, you will quickly find that they were written in Greek, some 60 – 65 years after the alleged life of Jesus, by authors unknown…

As for my claim of “no evidence” I have to admit I am somewhat confused by your response, are you actually saying that despite the fact that it is common knowledge that there is no supporting physical evidence that can be linked to the story of Jesus, (this is why you need faith) you have some evidence, some physical evidence???

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Mockingbird 0]

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You still are unable to deny that Christ is supposed to have been a Jew, and his disciples are said to have been Jewish fishermen. His language, and the language of his followers must, therefore, have been Aramaic -- the popular language of Palestine in that age. But the Gospels are written in Greek…This proves that they were not written by Christ's disciples, or by any of the early Christians

Also, where did you get your information about Aramaic? It was not the "popular language of Palestine in that age." Koine Greek was.

(I thought I had sent this reply already, but found it in a window behind other windows...)